nopcbs

We had a 2004 RX330 for several years. Excellent car and trouble-free, until it was rear-ended last November by a woman driving HUA. She spun around and hit our car again with the result that once repair cost was at $15,000, the insurance company totaled it out.

After a thorough search for low miles 2008 RX400H's as a replacement, I found one at Lexus of Annapolis (Certified, <3 years in service, 18,500 miles) and bought it. I had the car shipped to MI, but it sat in the dealer's basement for about 2 weeks before our carrier picked it up.The day of the pickup was mild (40+ F) in MD and it started fine for loading on the carrier.

It got to our house late at night and it was pretty cold. High 20's. The car would not start on the carrier. By that I mean, you could not get a "Ready" display. The driver used a jumper battery, and it started fine. Once in my garage, I tried to re-start the car to move it, but it would not start until I gave it another jump. I put it on a charger and in about 2h it was in maintenance mode. Took it off the charger. It did draw 12-15 amps at first, for a while.

Next morning it started fine first time, but then when I wanted to start it again later a half hour later, it again would not start and gave me a check VSC message (check vehicle stability control). I called my salesman to ask what to do and while I had him on the line I hooked the jump starter up (from a charger) and it immediately started. (By started I mean it read "Ready" on dash display followed by engine startup about 10-15 sec later. Salesman said this is normal.)

Charged the battery again (went into maintenance mode after about an hour). Drove the car to an Auto Zone and had them do a load test on the battery. Tester device said to charge the battery and then test again. AZ guy said there was something wrong with the battery, this was not a normal result.

T has been running in low 30's to low 20's. The car has started normally the last couple of days, but I a very suspicious. A healthy battery should not do this. The battery is less than 3 years old and original. This is my wife's car and I do not want her getting stuck in cold/snowy weather. I think the dealer owes me a new battery, but the symptoms are very strange to me.
I intend to have it tested again before I press the issue, but I do not trust the thing, at this point.

Added: it has been 5 additional days and the start problem has not repeated even with T's running from low 20's to upper 30's. Have even done start/stop on the car repeatedly with no problem starting it (Ready state).

Any comments or suggestions.

By the way, this thing rides and performs better than our 2004 did. So far I have seen 30 mpg city (20 miles) and 27 mpg mixed city/highway (40 miles). Not bad. Our RX330 could do 18 mpg city and 23 mpg highway/city.

Love the "new" car.

- nopcbs

jtaylor3

My car refused to start for the first time on Wednesday afternoon this week. I had to have it jumped and drove it straight to my Lexus dealer. The battery failed the load test and they replaced it for free under the new car warranty. I have to say this is a first for me, usually I have had to pay a pro-rated amount or the whole cost.

Needless to say, I am a very happy camper.

Jeff
08 RX400h

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Your problem is very simple - replace the battery... Two possible routes when what you are saying is happening - its either the alternator or the battery... if it was the alternator, the car would have issues when running... since you don't seem to be experiencing that, its simple, replace the battery...

Those are perfectly normal, common symptoms for a battery that is on the edge of failing. Voltage should be 12.6 volts or better.

Car batteries, just like every other rechargeable battery on the planet, have a limited life span. I have seen batteries 12-18 months old fail, and I've also seen them last 7 years plus... As the battery ages, it is weakened, and essentially no longer has the cranking amperage available as it did when new. This is exacerbated by time sitting, as batteries will slowly discharge over time anyways, and, it is also made very apparent when it is very cold out. As a battery gets colder, its available amperage drops (that is why there is CA - cranking amps, and CCA - cold cranking amps).

Go pick up a battery, should cost $100ish for a really good battery (Interstate, etc), or pay $50-$60 for a cheapie... Either way, I wouldn't trust that battery either...

nopcbs

What you say is correct for conventional cars. However, the 12v battery in an RX400H has a very different life that that in an RX350, for example. It is NEVER used to start the car. Further, there is no alternator. Further, in my case, the battery has taken to working just fine in pretty cold weather (low 20's) after it did those three hiccup events. When it was load tested, the result on the meter was "charge battery and test again". It did not say "bad battery".

I don't say that the 3 year old battery is not bad, I just say that this failure mode, if it is one, is very unusual. My inclination is to believe that it is not really a current capacity problem, but rather one of the battery voltage being a little to low to make the RX400H starting system electronics "happy". A pity, as the NiMH battery always has PLENTY of juice to start the engine...or move the car.

One more parts store load test today and if that comes out inconclusive, a call to the dealer in Ann Arbor for an appointment. This thing is still under new car warranty plus it is a Certified.

- nopcbs

prowler97

I had the same issues with my 400h when the 12V battery was on its way out. I replaced the battery and everything was fine. Your battery is probably the original and most likely is 5 years old. It's not worth the heart aches and problems dealing with the old battery; I'd says it time for a new battery

prowler97

Just and FYI for future buyers. I would not buy a hybrid if I lived in the cold climate because I notice that as soon as I put on the heat with any hybrid vehicle the engine kicks on. However the AC can run on electric and does not force the engine to turn on until the battery is drained.

nopcbs

The battery is original, but the car was manufactured in late 2008 and has an in-service date of less than 3 years ago (2009). Must be one of the last RX400H's made and imported. Not an old battery.

You saw the same symptoms? A spike of start problems followed by no problems for a period of time? No problems after the new battery was put in?

I don't mind replacing it...only $72 at Advance, even if not a warranty item. Can even use the old battery in my lawn tractor...it would fit!

Interesting.

- nopcbs

RobF15E

nopcbs,
Is the Advance battery a sealed acid battery? The only sealed acid battery I have seen (other than the dealer) is an Optima Batteries 8073-167 D51R YellowTop for $150-200. The battery for this car is quite small and produced in limited quanities so there are not that many options. Another poster found a suitible non-sealed battery at COSTCO for about $66. I have had Optima/sealed/RGM batteries before and it is nice not having to deal with the acid and corrosion. They tend to have more CCA per pound (not important to us) and mine have always lasted a little longer, but when they fail, it is normally fairly sudden with little warning. If the price were close, I'd probably always buy one.
I just received an 08 RX400h 2 days ago and the battery in it was maked Blem, had no other markings at all. It looked new so I tested it on a load tester and it held 500 amps steady for 10 sec. It is even smaller than the normal battery that goes in the RX400h. It looks like there is enough room to put a slightly bigger battery in the car if you replace the battery tray or put a thin piece of wood in the bottom so the larger battery doesn't sit on the battery tray lip. The trick is to find one that will fit in there. Fourtunately our battery is easy to access so it isn't difficult to check it. An inexpensive load tester `$30 and a hydrometer if you don't have a sealed battery can give plenty of warning of a failing battery. I normally check my vehicles twice a year as preventive maintenance. In this car, I think it will be even more important. I just wish someone made a 288volt charger that didn't cost thousands of dollars.

nopcbs

The Advance battery is not an AGM, if that is what you mean. I'm sure it is the usual "sealed" flooded battery that you cannot easilly add water to.

However, a call to Lexus of Ann Arbor service tells me that the 12v battery is covered under the new car warranty and I still have 1 year of that. So, I will take the car to them in early February and get the service done there.

I also learned that my symptoms are not uncommon with RX400H's and indicative of a intermittantly shorted cell. I get the impression that Toyota blew it in choosing a battery size and supplier for this car.

I have never had problems with leakage of a flooded battery. Just spread some petroleum jelly over the terminals to keep moisture off and zero problems.

I have an AGM battery in my Merc and had one in a BMW, but that is just one of those German over-the-top things. It does not really need it. Maybe an off-road vehicle, but not a road car.

- nopcbs.

nopcbs

Where would one get one of those?

- nopcbs

QUOTE=RobF15E;6927776]nopcbs,
Is the Advance battery a sealed acid battery? The only sealed acid battery I have seen (other than the dealer) is an Optima Batteries 8073-167 D51R YellowTop for $150-200. The battery for this car is quite small and produced in limited quanities so there are not that many options. Another poster found a suitible non-sealed battery at COSTCO for about $66. I have had Optima/sealed/RGM batteries before and it is nice not having to deal with the acid and corrosion. They tend to have more CCA per pound (not important to us) and mine have always lasted a little longer, but when they fail, it is normally fairly sudden with little warning. If the price were close, I'd probably always buy one.
I just received an 08 RX400h 2 days ago and the battery in it was maked Blem, had no other markings at all. It looked new so I tested it on a load tester and it held 500 amps steady for 10 sec. It is even smaller than the normal battery that goes in the RX400h. It looks like there is enough room to put a slightly bigger battery in the car if you replace the battery tray or put a thin piece of wood in the bottom so the larger battery doesn't sit on the battery tray lip. The trick is to find one that will fit in there. Fourtunately our battery is easy to access so it isn't difficult to check it. An inexpensive load tester `$30 and a hydrometer if you don't have a sealed battery can give plenty of warning of a failing battery. I normally check my vehicles twice a year as preventive maintenance. In this car, I think it will be even more important. I just wish someone made a 288volt charger that didn't cost thousands of dollars.[/QUOTE]

rcy

Living in Canada, I can confirm that the engine runs more often in cold weather, however, once the coolant is up to temp, the heat can be left on without the engine running. In fact there is a separate electric pump to keep hot coolant flowing through the heater core when the engine is off and the mechanical water pump is not circulating coolant.

However, even with the engine running more often in the winter, I still get better gas mileage than a comparable vehicle (for example my wife's 2010 Chevy Equinox - 11.2 l/100km vs 9.1 l/100km in the winter (and 8.1 in the summer).

RobF15E

You can do a search for 12V Battery Load tester on Amazon or Ebay if you like to shop online, or if you have a Harbor Freight tools nearby you can run to the store, or you can get one from your local Auto Parts store or Sears store. They will range from $30-$70. It is just a cheap voltmeter and a giant resistor. When you first connect it, you can read the no load voltage. The box will have a momentary contact switch that will put a load on the battery. The little needle will move to show how much load the battery will hold. Normally you hold it on for 10 seconds and watch the needle. It should stabilize after a couple seconds and remain steady. When you release the switch, the voltage will return to the unloaded state. They will get hot, particularly if you perform several tests back to back. Nothing that is dangerous though. Just watch the little piggies. You can spend a ton for a high tech digital one, but I have never had any trouble with the cheap ones. I have been using them for 30 years. Glad to head you are able to get your battery replace under warranty. I think Lexus dropped the ball with the battery as well. There is plenty of room for a larger battery in the RX. I am guessing it is the same battery they used in the Prius, but it is only a guess. When I have to replace mine, I'll hunt around and find the largest deep cell battery I can safely put in there. We have only had our 08 RX400h for a week, but we like it. I have to admit, I still hold the key waiting for the engine to start when I first turn it...

prowler97

When my 400h was doing crazy things the "sealer" diagnosed it as a bad cell in the 12V battery. I had them put a new one ($165 parts + service) because I did not want my wife to get stranded. After the new battery I have no had an issue since.

nopcbs

The car did not fail to start after the first three incidents when we got it in mid-December 2011.

In early February 2012, we took it to Lexus of Ann Arbor for this problem. They replaced the battery under warranty ($145) with one they got a from a Toyota dealer down the road (they were out, had 2 on order at Lexus dealer).

I had previously purchased a Solar battery tester (not the carbon load type) and it reported 12.0 V and about 200 CCA for the battery if tested w/o charging the battery and 12.45 V and ~ 280 CCA if I charged right before testing. In both cases the tester said to "charge and retest". Had the same result when tested at AutoWorks.

I think the battery had a bad/flaky cell. Glad to be rid of it. I had been carrying a self-pwered booster device in the trunk.

Toyota should be ashamed that they put such junk batteries in $50,000 cars.

By the way, I had to tell the dealer to do the ISC reset on their diagnostic computer after the battery change. They did not know about it and only found the Toyota tech bulletin after I mentioned it to them.

Too soon to tell if it did any good.

- nopcbs

RX330inFL

Sad, very sad.