2013 Avalon Hybrid or 2013 ES300h Hybrid?
12-17-12 | 08:35 AM
#61
Go to a BMW lot and count the cars stocked that have leather and not leatherette, I just did this...so I know. I have a coworker with a $55,000 X5 that has leatherette. It is almost impossible to find a C class, E350, GLK, or ML Mercedes with leather and not leatherette unless it has a huge package. Just because the package is available doesn't mean its on the cars stocked at the dealer. Guy who works for me just bought a $44k C300...with fake leather (or MBTEX) they call it. He said it was impossible to find a C class on a lot with real leather that was not an AMG model. I extensively looked at the E350 and drove many $60+ E350s without real leather. I think I saw one or two total with leather.
Anyways, even if every BMW or Mercedes on the lot had leather, its an option on all of them that costs more than the Lexus option, at least the Lexus option comes with other things. Lexus did away with standard leather on the ES, but it REDUCED the MSRP of the base model as well. When you option one up, its within $1,500 of the 2012 model car, with more content.
I'd also challenge the statement that a 328 with leather is cheaper than an ES without leather. A base 328 is $36,500, a base ES is $36,100, $400 cheaper base. The Base ES has significantly more features, size, power than a base 328. Bear in mind also that BMW charges $550 for any color other than straight black or white. Just adding leather and a color to a 328...with NO OPTIONS OR PACKAGES yields a cost of $39,345. That price gets you a 3 with no wood trim, no heated seats, no moonroof, no keyless entry and start, no lumbar support in the seats. True, an ES package with leather will run you about $1,500 more than that, but you get a LOT of content for that $1,500.
And on top of that, the NuLuxe is much softer and more genuine feeling than either BMW's leatherette or Mercedes' MBTEX. If anything...dare I say its nicer feeling than the leather in the ES...at least the leather in the non-UL ES.
Anyways, even if every BMW or Mercedes on the lot had leather, its an option on all of them that costs more than the Lexus option, at least the Lexus option comes with other things. Lexus did away with standard leather on the ES, but it REDUCED the MSRP of the base model as well. When you option one up, its within $1,500 of the 2012 model car, with more content.
I'd also challenge the statement that a 328 with leather is cheaper than an ES without leather. A base 328 is $36,500, a base ES is $36,100, $400 cheaper base. The Base ES has significantly more features, size, power than a base 328. Bear in mind also that BMW charges $550 for any color other than straight black or white. Just adding leather and a color to a 328...with NO OPTIONS OR PACKAGES yields a cost of $39,345. That price gets you a 3 with no wood trim, no heated seats, no moonroof, no keyless entry and start, no lumbar support in the seats. True, an ES package with leather will run you about $1,500 more than that, but you get a LOT of content for that $1,500.
And on top of that, the NuLuxe is much softer and more genuine feeling than either BMW's leatherette or Mercedes' MBTEX. If anything...dare I say its nicer feeling than the leather in the ES...at least the leather in the non-UL ES.
MB and BMW leather is hard and feels like the fake stuff anyway.
12-17-12 | 12:44 PM
#63
Driver
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 155
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From: Central Coast, CA.
I totally agree with all of the above comments and we are quite happy with our ES 300h; however, we shopped an Audi A6 and BMW 328 and 528 prior to our purchase. The A6 probably had the nicest interior but the gas mileage was bad and the car was $5,000 more than the ES (comparably equipped) - both BMW models were nice in their own way but were very expensive when comparably equipped. We might have chosen the Audi A6 had it come with diesel engine - but in the end I trust Japanese cars far more than German cars.
12-17-12 | 12:55 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,118
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From: Maryland
The A6 is a great car, I really liked it a lot when I looked at it before I got the GS. Issue is pricewise it lacks some small things like a tilt telescoping steering wheel, etc unless you get the Prestige model which is $58k+. The other issue is Audi's leases since I lease. I looked at a Prestige model A6 vs my Luxury package GS and the price was within $1k, deal was similar off of each model...but the A6 was $200 a month more because of very poor residuals and high money factors compared to the Lexus. 3 series is way too small IMHO, and the 5 is too expensive.
12-20-12 | 12:06 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,686
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From: ON/NY
Well I finally got a chance to look over the Avalon.
Overall,the exterior is a big let down to me. I liked the last gen body style much better. The whole car from the front doors rearward look terrible IMO.
The front end is good, and lower grille is great, but compared to the outgoing Avalon, this new Avalon has a very unfortunate looking exterior.
I looked over the ES right afterward, I like the ES much better although I don't love it.
Sadly, the new Avalon does not look like a luxury car or a near luxury car in person. I'm not even sure if it looks like an upscale premium car to me.
Overall,the exterior is a big let down to me. I liked the last gen body style much better. The whole car from the front doors rearward look terrible IMO.
The front end is good, and lower grille is great, but compared to the outgoing Avalon, this new Avalon has a very unfortunate looking exterior.
I looked over the ES right afterward, I like the ES much better although I don't love it.
Sadly, the new Avalon does not look like a luxury car or a near luxury car in person. I'm not even sure if it looks like an upscale premium car to me.
12-20-12 | 09:50 PM
#66
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From: ﻼﷴ
12-21-12 | 07:07 AM
#67
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: GA
12-21-12 | 08:53 AM
#68
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
I also read the Qi wireless charging is part of the Avalon's Technology package that includes the Auto hi beans, pre-collision and radar cruise control for 1700, albeit on the Avalon Limited. I wish Lexus offered this deal.
12-21-12 | 09:24 AM
#69
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Joined: Apr 2012
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From: MO
DB or sone reading?...
Probably not the new Avalon when you read reviews like this.
"Avalon engineers stole a move from the Lexus playbook by creating safe-room silence inside. At 59.8 decibels the Avalon recorded one of the lowest 70-mph cruise noise readings we've measured in any car in recent memory — including such costly equipment as the Bentley Continental GT (61.6 decibels) and the Audi A8 L (60.9 decibels)."
"Avalon engineers stole a move from the Lexus playbook by creating safe-room silence inside. At 59.8 decibels the Avalon recorded one of the lowest 70-mph cruise noise readings we've measured in any car in recent memory — including such costly equipment as the Bentley Continental GT (61.6 decibels) and the Audi A8 L (60.9 decibels)."
HI...where did the review come from? 59.8 is really good and that will motivate me to go look at it.
Anyone know if there is a source comparable sound readings for various cars?....in most reviews this seems to be and afterthought, at best.
mike
12-21-12 | 09:38 AM
#70
Racer
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,717
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From: GA
...............................................................................................................
HI...where did the review come from? 59.8 is really good and that will motivate me to go look at it.
Anyone know if there is a source comparable sound readings for various cars?....in most reviews this seems to be and afterthought, at best.
mike
HI...where did the review come from? 59.8 is really good and that will motivate me to go look at it.
Anyone know if there is a source comparable sound readings for various cars?....in most reviews this seems to be and afterthought, at best.
mike
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/avalon...road-test.html
12-21-12 | 04:43 PM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,686
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
...............................................................................................................
HI...where did the review come from? 59.8 is really good and that will motivate me to go look at it.
Anyone know if there is a source comparable sound readings for various cars?....in most reviews this seems to be and afterthought, at best.
mike
HI...where did the review come from? 59.8 is really good and that will motivate me to go look at it.
Anyone know if there is a source comparable sound readings for various cars?....in most reviews this seems to be and afterthought, at best.
mike
04-30-13 | 10:17 AM
#73
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Driver
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: ﻼﷴ
No way. BMW has the finest leather out of all the luxury makes. People often think my 7 yr old 5 series is new because of the condition of its leather (and I baby the exterior). Lexus probably has the cheapest, most artificial feeling leather. That's one of the things that steered me to the 5 series back then when I was deciding between the 5 and the GS.
And that's one of the things I will miss when I go Japanese this time around.
And that's one of the things I will miss when I go Japanese this time around.
Last edited by Neoxagon; 04-30-13 at 10:22 AM.
06-06-13 | 01:42 PM
#74
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: TN
I understand that Lexus ES300h has uv protection on all glass surfaces. Is this true? Does Avalon Hybrid have this feature? This is a good feature to those who drive a lot and have skin cancer issues.
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