ES300h Versus What?
05-24-13, 07:46 AM
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ES300h Versus What?
Just curious if there are any apples to apples competitors. Any other ES size luxury cars with 40 MPG hybrid engines?
05-24-13, 07:54 AM
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Maybe the Avalon? 
05-24-13, 08:42 AM
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Lincoln MKZ hybrid or highly optioned Ford Fusion Hybrid. Unfortunately the redesigned 2013 models suffer from woefully inadequate fuel economy as compared with the overall 47 MPG promised and still advertised. (with the huge loophole of "your mileage may vary)
05-24-13, 08:54 AM
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Interesting but I checked FUELLY for real world mileage. The 2013 ESh shows 37.2 av and the 2013 Fusion h (no MKZ data yet) shows about 42. So the differential vs EPA is actually slightly worse (worse "fudge factor") for the Lexus. And in real terms the Ford gets 5 MPG more. About 12% better. Of course then you're drivin' a Ford. 
05-24-13, 09:39 AM
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Fuelly says it gets 40MPG. But the higher cost of diesel fuel kills that benefit. Plus it's a German car...you'll spend extra fuel getting back and forth to the dealer for the constant repairs (I've owned 1 VW, 4 Audis and 7 Mercedes...never again).
05-24-13, 11:53 AM
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Oh, and diesel is actually cheaper here. At least most of the time it is.
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05-24-13, 01:56 PM
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Interesting but I checked FUELLY for real world mileage. The 2013 ESh shows 37.2 av and the 2013 Fusion h (no MKZ data yet) shows about 42. So the differential vs EPA is actually slightly worse (worse "fudge factor") for the Lexus. And in real terms the Ford gets 5 MPG more. About 12% better. Of course then you're drivin' a Ford.
2013 Fusion Hybrid = user submitted 39.2 MPG vs an EPA combined estimate of 47
2013 Lexus 300h = user submitted 37.9 MPG vs an EPA combined estimate of 40
2010 Fusion Hybrid = user submitted 38.6 vs an EPA combined estimate of 39
The EPA is auditing Ford's claims, and there is at least one and probably several class-action suits against Ford for such a shortfall. I posted the '10 Fusion figures as that was my previous vehicle; my average over 3.5 years was 41. Ford's methodology was accurate with the previous iteration.
Last edited by Fly4u; 05-24-13 at 04:48 PM.
05-24-13, 02:19 PM
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Interesting. I love how the Internet has become the fuel economy truth police. And if FORD goofed or fudged, they should have to do as Hyundai did.
05-27-13, 06:58 AM
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The only car discussed above that would be in the same class as the ES is the Lincoln.
I have been burned with Amercan luxury too many times in the past to ever buy again. I am sick of German too. I just traded in a 2011 high end BMW for 50% of retail. INSANE! On the flip side, I traded in a 2012 Camry Hybrid for this Lexus and only lost 18% of purchase price.
This car is in a class with itself and it's about time that a high end car manufacturer figured out that there is a huge section of the market that want a luxury car that gets decent performance without compromising good gas mileage.
I have been burned with Amercan luxury too many times in the past to ever buy again. I am sick of German too. I just traded in a 2011 high end BMW for 50% of retail. INSANE! On the flip side, I traded in a 2012 Camry Hybrid for this Lexus and only lost 18% of purchase price.
This car is in a class with itself and it's about time that a high end car manufacturer figured out that there is a huge section of the market that want a luxury car that gets decent performance without compromising good gas mileage.
05-27-13, 07:22 AM
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The only car discussed above that would be in the same class as the ES is the Lincoln.
I have been burned with Amercan luxury too many times in the past to ever buy again. I am sick of German too. I just traded in a 2011 high end BMW for 50% of retail. INSANE! On the flip side, I traded in a 2012 Camry Hybrid for this Lexus and only lost 18% of purchase price.
This car is in a class with itself and it's about time that a high end car manufacturer figured out that there is a huge section of the market that want a luxury car that gets decent performance without compromising good gas mileage.
I have been burned with Amercan luxury too many times in the past to ever buy again. I am sick of German too. I just traded in a 2011 high end BMW for 50% of retail. INSANE! On the flip side, I traded in a 2012 Camry Hybrid for this Lexus and only lost 18% of purchase price.
This car is in a class with itself and it's about time that a high end car manufacturer figured out that there is a huge section of the market that want a luxury car that gets decent performance without compromising good gas mileage.
Also the difference in price in this category for hybrid vs non-hybrid is much less percentage wise. Prius is about $22,000 versus $19,000 for a similar sized Corolla. But the price difference between hybrid and non-hy ES is the same 3 grand I am seeing.
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