Hybrid worth it? Part 2: Cost
10-17-19, 12:33 PM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
I never understand the need to calculate the payback when buying a hybrid. To me the hybrid feature is no any different than any other feature on the car. If feature payback was really that important, then why would anyone ever buy more than a minimum equipped Kia or Chev? Is anyone lately doing a cost benefit analysis on a radio, leather seats or more importantly a Lexus vs Kia?
There are so many benefits of the hybrid feature, which have been posted on this and the Rav site that people should be beyond that sort of analysis. People always go to the CVT without taking the time to understand that it should never have been named CVT, because it always get compared to other manufactures CVT that are an issue. The CVT is maintenance free, does not jerk, does not need software updates and is always smooth with never a hesitation. It works perfectly on long downhill braking or uphill power needs. Here is a link to a Rav site where someone has 274,000 miles on a 2017 Rav. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/20.../#post-2714597....
There are other postings out there on the Rav forums indicating the fact that Toyota hybrids are bulletproof. By the way, the Rav and Lexus, and for all I know, all the Toyotas have the same CVT.
As for premium gas, go ahead and use it. It won’t do anything special and is not needed. I had a Cadillac with the Northstar engine that “required” premium, and I drove that car 250,000 miles and only used the cheapest gas I could find.
The best advice is to do an analysis of the lack of maintenance required on hybrids. The MPG analysis is nice, but just nickels and dimes.
There are so many benefits of the hybrid feature, which have been posted on this and the Rav site that people should be beyond that sort of analysis. People always go to the CVT without taking the time to understand that it should never have been named CVT, because it always get compared to other manufactures CVT that are an issue. The CVT is maintenance free, does not jerk, does not need software updates and is always smooth with never a hesitation. It works perfectly on long downhill braking or uphill power needs. Here is a link to a Rav site where someone has 274,000 miles on a 2017 Rav. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/20.../#post-2714597....
There are other postings out there on the Rav forums indicating the fact that Toyota hybrids are bulletproof. By the way, the Rav and Lexus, and for all I know, all the Toyotas have the same CVT.
As for premium gas, go ahead and use it. It won’t do anything special and is not needed. I had a Cadillac with the Northstar engine that “required” premium, and I drove that car 250,000 miles and only used the cheapest gas I could find.
The best advice is to do an analysis of the lack of maintenance required on hybrids. The MPG analysis is nice, but just nickels and dimes.
Leather is not a good comparison because cost savings is not one of the benefits of leather.
This being said, you should check out Part 1 which discusses the benefits of hybrids beyond savings at the pump.
10-22-19, 05:31 AM
#17
I don't see any analysis of the reduction of maintenance costs. For example, no transmission maintenance and no brake pad jobs for better then a 100,000 miles including brake line flushes. Again I suggest reading this link. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/20.../#post-2714597
In addition, I used leather seats as an example, just because it has no financial benefit, which is the same as reasoning why Lexus over Chev. People buy what they like and do not always do a financial analysis. However, for some reason, people want to do a financial analysis on on hybrids and just look at MPG. MPG is the least of the cost savings.
In addition, I used leather seats as an example, just because it has no financial benefit, which is the same as reasoning why Lexus over Chev. People buy what they like and do not always do a financial analysis. However, for some reason, people want to do a financial analysis on on hybrids and just look at MPG. MPG is the least of the cost savings.
10-22-19, 12:52 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
I don't see any analysis of the reduction of maintenance costs. For example, no transmission maintenance and no brake pad jobs for better then a 100,000 miles including brake line flushes. Again I suggest reading this link. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/20.../#post-2714597
In addition, I used leather seats as an example, just because it has no financial benefit, which is the same as reasoning why Lexus over Chev. People buy what they like and do not always do a financial analysis. However, for some reason, people want to do a financial analysis on on hybrids and just look at MPG. MPG is the least of the cost savings.
In addition, I used leather seats as an example, just because it has no financial benefit, which is the same as reasoning why Lexus over Chev. People buy what they like and do not always do a financial analysis. However, for some reason, people want to do a financial analysis on on hybrids and just look at MPG. MPG is the least of the cost savings.
I did not include them in the analysis as there's little to no data and the data is inconsistent. How can the maintenance cost savings be greater than the gas savings though?
Rav4 is in a vastly different price range and I do not see it as a good comparison. Most people are comparing between the RX and the RXh, and not the leather between two vastly different brands and vehicles.
02-18-20, 11:43 AM
#19
Driver School Candidate
350 or 450?
New to this forum.
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
02-18-20, 12:12 PM
#20
Pole Position
New to this forum.
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
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ewkid (02-18-20)
02-23-20, 06:13 PM
#21
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 5
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2020 RX450 considerations
I'm considering the 2020 RX450 and read that it comes standard with safety features that are optional on the 350, but today dealer told me this isn't so? Also, is it true that the hybrid will require less maintenance and is therefore the best option if we plan on keeping the car 10+ years? Finally, I've read conflicting things about whether or not it's ok to use regular gas even though premium is recommended. What has been the experience of those of you who've been driving a 450 for a while? Thanks!
03-01-20, 06:03 AM
#23
I'm considering the 2020 RX450 and read that it comes standard with safety features that are optional on the 350, but today dealer told me this isn't so? Also, is it true that the hybrid will require less maintenance and is therefore the best option if we plan on keeping the car 10+ years? Finally, I've read conflicting things about whether or not it's ok to use regular gas even though premium is recommended. What has been the experience of those of you who've been driving a 450 for a while? Thanks!
03-04-20, 07:21 PM
#24
Intermediate
I have used regular gas on my 2017 RX450h. I asked Lexus dealer what gas they fill up the car when it was delivered. They said they only have 87 octane. So I have been using that 87 octane for over 3 years. I put 91 a couple of times, just to try it out and got 1MPG better. I normally have 30-33 MPG with regular gas.
06-14-20, 10:01 PM
#25
I think a little caveat is in order. the hybrid only gets good city mpg in light traffic situations. In heavy stop-and-go traffic (90% of my driving), my Gen 2 hybrid gets 20mpg at best. While on the open freeway I'm getting 28-30mpg, much better than city. I'm upgrading to Gen 4 soon and will see if the newer hybrid does better in city...otherwise I'm going with RX350 F-Sport.
06-14-20, 10:51 PM
#26
Intermediate
In heavy stop and go traffic on highway, my 450RX gets 35-38MPG with regular gas. With a combination of highway and streets, I normally get 32-33MPG. It all depends how hard you accelerate, and how often you can charge and discharge batteries. I tend to accelerate to speed, then reduce acceleration or let go of pedal to get it to go into battery mode. Note that battery only driving occurs under 40MPH. My best mileage is when I have a few miles to get to highway, using battery during that time, the get on highway to charge the batteries, then few miles in city driving on battery.
06-15-20, 08:54 AM
#27
walkyourwa,AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Hybrid Battery Warranty is now 10 years or 150K miles. While you and I do
not have 2020's it is clear that the reliability of the Nickel Metal Hydride (NIMH)
battery is exemplary. The service life of the 12v lead acid battery for the radio
and lights however is limited as they have always been.
Hybrid Battery Warranty is now 10 years or 150K miles. While you and I do
not have 2020's it is clear that the reliability of the Nickel Metal Hydride (NIMH)
battery is exemplary. The service life of the 12v lead acid battery for the radio
and lights however is limited as they have always been.
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EastTNLex (06-16-20)
06-15-20, 09:57 AM
#28
Racer
Thread Starter
06-15-20, 05:22 PM
#29
Base price 2020 RX350 AWD $45,550
Base price 2020 RX45h AWD $46,800
Difference..................................$1,250
Base price 2020 RX45h AWD $46,800
Difference..................................$1,250
06-16-20, 05:20 AM
#30
New to this forum.
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
I have just bought an RX350 F sport 2017. So far could not be happier and it is my first Lexus after 3 4runners. (I do miss the electric rear window!). The point I wanted to make is this:
The Lexus dealer showed me a 450H which was fantastic and an "ordinary" 350 - but I needed time to consider. I went home and did some basic calcs. Comparing each vehicle the hybrid does 30 mpg and the 350 does 22 (EPA figures) a fantastic difference!!!
I do about 12,000 miles a year. So a quick calc indicates the hybrid will use 400 gals.and the gas guzzler will use 545 per year. So.... 145 gals difference at (say) $2.50 a gal. is $363 year saving.
BUT the hybrid is about $4000 more expensive - even in the used lots. So it will take me about 11 years to pay the difference AND in 7 years I'm going to need new batteries in the hybrid.
Have I missed something? Am I really going to save the planet with that fuel saving AND buying new batteries???? (and I'm not partial to CVT's)
Chris
The difference in the cost is 1200 not 4000. With your numbers it will take 3-4 years to pay back the MPG chump change.