Masonchoi

One of Korea youtube Car Brodcast jockey said

ES300h Rear suspension structure is so old Method to use for a Newest car like ES300h

and it looks like 90's models suspension Structure

so This method is a bad way to apply to newest Sedan ...

how do you think so about this?

azipod

The overall suspension design suits the purpose of this car. The ride is meant to be comfortable and compliant. It is not meant to be sporty.
It is the same suspension set up as the Camry and Avalon. When you get more upscale to vehicles like the GS and LS, you will see that their suspension is more complex and sophisticated.

You can only tell so much about a car's suspension by simply looking at its design. Some cars will really impress you even though their setup looks very basic.

Brent1944

And you did say it was a Korean you tube right? How many Korean cars are even used in the same sentence as a Lexus?

Masonchoi

But why Lexus choose this old way to the ES300h

Does it have any benefit to use this way?

azipod

It is NOT an "old way." It is a proven setup, albeit basic, that has allowed Camrys, Corollas, Avalons, and the ES to sell at nearly a million copies combined annually.

The benefit is economics and keeping things where it should be for the car without going excessive.

The suspension is not in any way better or worst than other cars at this price point.

zes

It is a proven design which works very well 99% of the time when the car is operated at street legal speeds and legally accepted maneuvers. Use of a proven design makes Lexuses very reliable. Introducing unnecessary innovations for the 1% situations will make Lexuses as unreliable as BMWs and Mercedes. That will hurt the brand because Lexus customers value reliability.

chromedome

Interesting thing about the ES300h is the weight of the battery pack over the rear suspension arms makes the car understeer less. Ok, that's not saying much because it still understeers like a chunky pig, but it feels sharper than an ES250 or a Camry.

But who the heck looks at the rear suspension structure before buying a car? It's not a pickup.

azipod

LOL! That's what I was thinking too. It may have helped if they knew what they were looking at!

Yibo829

I think it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Lexus to put a better suspension setup than just using macpherson strut all around. Look at the competition such as the Audi A6, it's a multilink setup for the front and rear suspension. The Genesis G80 has a better setup as well. Even the 2017 Buick LaCrosse now has a 5 link rear suspension. Oh and don't forget the Lincoln MKZ.

azipod

Is that why the ES outsells all those cars?

zes

Why would those other setups be better? They would provide a little more trunk space, I guess, but what performance benefits would one get by the more complicated system?
The main driver for a suspension is the sprung weight vs unsprung weight and if the suspension is independent. In this case the suspension is independent, so better performance can be obtained mainly with lighter wheels and tires. The other benefits are difficult to quantify for a family sedan like the ES. Other than bragging rights on paper, of course..

Sulu

All suspension designs involve compromises. A rear MacPherson strut suspension takes up horizontal space (leaving less width at the wheel wells) but provides a low load floor. A multi-link or double-wishbone rear suspension takes up vertical space, leaving a higher load floor or floor intrusions at the wheel wells, but provides greater width between the wheel wells.

A MacPherson strut suspension is simpler than the multi-link suspension, so is cheaper to produce. It also does not locate the rear wheels as well as the multi-link suspension, but for comfort-oriented (rather than handling-oriented) cars such as the Camry, Avalon or ES, that does not really matter.

But, take heart. The next-generation Camry on the new, less-expensive to produce TNGA platform, does have a multi-link rear suspension (as does the new Prius) and I see no reason why this more sophisticated rear suspension would not show up on the next-generation ES (and Avalon). The early driving impressions on the Camry (and the Prius) are favourable; handling is said to be better.

norakat

I own the 2016 ES 350 w 18" wheels and the suspension feels primitive.

On bumpy roads the car sways side to side a bit too many times.

zes

So over the years I have owned and driven cars which have used live axles (old Toyota Coronas and Corollas), Audi 5000 with live axles, assorted Volvos, Mercedes 500 with multilink suspension, Mazda Millenia with multilink suspensions, far too many Ford and GM products, assorted Hyundai cars and now ESh. Honestly speaking, I cannot tell the difference given variations in roads and tires. These cars were almost all in good condition. I admit though that I just drive normally within the speed limits and have almost never pushed the cars to their handling limits in terms of cornering or high speed. I feel the benefits of complex suspensions are there but marginal and sometimes are masked by tires, tire pressure, car load and similar factors.

qluu86

Well he isn't wrong, the structure was still used for the 6th gen ES from 2008 camry's. Almost identical.
I'm currently working on my buddy's project ES he just picked up randomly. my advice to you is to insulated every cravats with insulation. even door panel and this has to be the most noisiest car I've worked on coming off the lot.