jordanhigg

I posted in the es300h/es350 section but I really want a gs450h but not sure I want to buy the extra money for one and i hear they are not as quite as an es model on the highway.

Did anyone compare these at all? I know tires make a huge difference in overall road noise but I keep getting mixed reviews on how quiet the gs is on the freeway. I would probably run the standard 18" and not the f sport 19" for less noise as well

Im2bz2p345

Do you have a Lexus dealership closeby to you? If so, I would suggest you test drive a GS 350 Luxury model on the highway - that should provide you a decent estimate of how noisy the GS450h is on the highway. It's not very noisy at all imho.. after all, especially for a luxury sports sedan. If you want the least noise, you'll need to look into the LS, which pure luxury and not much on the sporty at all.

The engine on the GS450h is slightly detuned when compared to the GS 350, but not sure how much of a difference that makes on the highway (if any).

In addition, try accelerating/passing people on the highway - that's where you can really tell the difference between an ES300h and the GS450h.

Best of luck,

~ Im2bz2p345

jordanhigg

MustangSal

Tires and road noise...

Road noise is far more determined by the condition of the road surface more than the tires. Yes, some noise does transfer via the tires based on tread (gap, depth, and compound) but mostly the road surface is the source.

My GS on the loudest roads I know of is better than most cars I have ever driven or been a passenger in. On the average I would say that it's the quietest car I've ever owned and have zero issues with any kind of conversation, use of BT, so on and so forth.

Again, don't be fooled that there is a tire and rim combination that will make your GS/ES quieter just because of the tires and rims. Between those and the road, the only thing left is the craftsmanship of the car itself that is left to blame after that. Door seals, window closure, door closure, things left to rattle and clunk...GS has that hands down in the win column.

Im2bz2p345

Listen to my man @MustangSal - he speaks the truth.

I think the GS450h will suit you well. If you like the GS (which is more sporty/performance oriented) over the ES platform, but at the same time, you want good gas mileage (30+ mpg).. then the rare GS450h calls your name; it's a difficult car to find, but I haven't read about a GS450h owner whose complaining. It has a great deal of power & torque available at just about any speed.

If you want less of a sporty ride (i.e. more body roll), less cornering ability, a less "connected" feeling and more "cushioned" suspension, then the ES300h is better suited for you. I also think the ES300h has slightly more room in the back for passengers. It also get better gas mileage. The ES300h has great get up & go power under 55 mph, but struggles to keep up the GS as

Both are excellent vehicles.. it honestly just depends on what you're after in a car. I've driven both and don't think you'll have to worry about road noise or bluetooth issues with either, especially if you opt for the non F-sport.

Good luck with your decision,

~ Im2bz2p345

jordanhigg

Thank you both for the replies. Yes I definitely want the gs over the Es. Now it’s basically settled I will get a gs and 30 mpg is just fine for me. I know I will do better in socal traffic just like a currently do in my 2011 hybrid camry LE
which has a terrible Bluetooth quality and a lot of road noise. Much cheaper car though.

i will update everyone when I find the gs. I want to attempt to find one with dual pane
windows as well.

MustangSal

IM2 has never led anyone astray either (thanks for the support brother).

Yes, a good choice for the 450h. I recommend trying to stay at 15' or newer just for the most up to date tech. If you're planning on using Enform, etc.

My 15' came basically loaded (including the double pane front windows). Basically everything Lexus offered without the rear seat controls and passenger memory seat control (lux package stuff).

Mileage is far superior to just about anything that isn't in this class...and that can be equally as nimble and as quick - it's faster than a GS350 even with a slightly detuned engine but the twin electrics give it the edge. I managed 34mpg once playing the "how good can it be" test.

I usually hover in the 29s or so because I like to push it and drive a little quicker than I should. Mileage is always going to suffer if you are a lead foot.

Mind you the 450h FS are rare. Really rare so don't be surprised if you have to look far and wide.

Are you in the US/Canada?

jordanhigg

I am in southern California. I would like to stay at the 15' as well but I will see what the prices look like. Hybrids drop in value quicker than a non once they get a certain age, but definitely not new hybrids. I definitely want the dual pane windows so i will have to roll each window down on the cars I look at. hehe

I want dual pane
must have ML

jordanhigg

looking at the prices it will take me a long time before I recoup the cost of the Hybrid over the gs350. I am seeing about 5k difference (That's a lot)

jordanhigg

Gs350 2015
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=198045205

vs

gs450h 2015
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=197509211

PsykotiK

the gs350 will be cheaper but more expensive on gas.. if you can live with a combined average around 20 then go for it.. but looks like you'll be spending around 37k+ for the hybrids

MustangSal

As far as I can tell, this 450h is basically a replica of mine. New it was stickered at $78k. I got it after 12 month lease return at $48k with 12,000 miles in mid-16'. Haven't really followed pricing since. But $37 in early 18' seems a little high.

jordanhigg

Im2bz2p345

Good idea - calculating the trade off is important. To be frank, if you don't intend to keep your GS for long, it makes no sense to go for the hybrid.

You'll find MUCH more availability and package options for a used GS 350 than you will for a GS450h.. as stated in this topic, the hybrid is a lot more rare. In fact, I believe you can only custom order one now - dealerships don't keep any "on hand" like they do with the GS 350. Most of us hybrid owners had to search for MONTHS for our "perfect" vehicle and many of us had it shipped from a different state (or drove them back home from a different state).

There are pro's besides just the 10+ mpg difference - there is instant torque at just about every rpm range, especially on the lower end when the electric engine really propels/pushes the car forward. There is no real "lag" in response unless the car is completely cold and you have given no time for the electric engine to build up a charge (within a few minutes of driving).

There are also con's to consider - the hybrid battery back is NiCAD based; the performance of it will wear down over time and some owners need to have their batteries replaced at 100K miles. I haven't read anyone with a 4GS having to replace their main battery back yet, but if you read in the 3GS hybrid subforum, many have there. Lexus is usually good about covering most/all of the cost since they want to retain you as a customer.

Overall, I've driven many other hybrids (from a variety of manufacturers) and the GS450h is one of the most refined, well-engineered hybrids out there imho. It has a E-CVT (electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission) that shifts the transmission in a butter smooth way (you don't "feel" jumps between any gears). It also had a planetary gear set, which is revolutionary in it's own right, meaning virtually unlimited gears ratios that adjust to the most efficient one by constantly analyzing vehicle speed, road conditions, engine power and driver input.

But you can do your own research. Here is one of the best reviews that I've read of the car (written by someone who has owned & reviewed SEVERAL Lexus vehicles), which helped me make the decision back when I was debating owning either the 2013 GS 350 and the GS450h for LONG TERM ownership: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...us-gs450h.html

Hope this helps,

~ Im2bz2p345

ChronoR

Actually, Toyota mostly uses Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) except in their newest hybrids which are going Lithium Ion. NiMH is more stable and wears less from charge cycles and time compared to Lithium Ion (both are light years better than NiCads)

Lithium ion needs more temperature management and will lose some capacity simply sitting there (i.e., over time). But the much greater power density and discharge rate means better MPG so it'll be the battery chemistry of choice in modern hybrids.