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Hybrid TechnologyUnique topics related to the LS600h L model hybrid drivetrain and other features/options found only on the LS600h. Please use the main 4LS forum for discussion about shared components with other fourth generation LS models.
I would tend to think the smooth glass like feeling of driving the LS is due to the robust design of the chassis & suspension system of the LS. And that a cheaper suspension (like on a Kia Rio for example) would tend to transmit all kind of garbage to the car.
Along that thinking, I would think an LS would absorb more imbalance from a tire than would the same Kia Rio. I.E., an LS with its sophisticated super smooth suspension may not feel 25 lbs of imbalance (as mentioned), but the Kia Rio would feel it tremendously.
That's my thinking, as an automotive engineer. But, my experience was not directly in suspension / chassis.
Jason
What you say does make quite a bit of sense, Jason. It's very possible it's all psychological (at least for me). My LS600hL is really pretty whisper quiet for the most part, so when I hear any sort of road noise or feel any sort of minor vibration from bumps, I'm assuming it's from the unbalanced back wheels. This may or may not be correct. I guess I'll find out when the new tires come in and get balanced...
Lexus dealers don't like Pirelli tires. Why? Personally I think its because they don't sell Pirelli tires. Mine was just in for the 5k service and they felt the need to put on the service report AND IN THE ONLINE SERVICE HISTORY that my tires were "non recommended aftermarket brand". Ridiculous.
So, I would take what the dealer says with a grain of salt. All I can say is I have bought 4 sets of these tires, three of which have been on LS460s and I have never had an issue with all 4 balancing right away under 10lbs of road force, and I've never had an issue with them losing balance as they age which I've had happen with other tires. In my experience nobody makes higher quality throughout tires than Michelin, but I think these Pirellis are slightly smoother and quieter than the Michelin Premier's which would be the Michelin option. If you're worried just buy them locally where they can throw one away and put another one on if it happens to have an issue such as you did here, I wish we had Discount Tire.
One thing I HAVE noticed with the latest set is they do flat spot overnight. Never had an issue with any of the other sets doing that, only difference is this car has the 19s, and on the 2015 it was the 18s and the other set is on my old 2003 ES300 which has 60 series tires on 16s. The flat spotting is worked out within 2-3 miles usually, sometimes it lasts until right after I get on the highway which is maybe 4 miles. Little annoying, but it wouldn't stop me from buying the tires again.
I would agree that over my 20 years of owning the LS, they are EXTREMELY sensitive to tires in general, and them being out of balance. The Achilles heel of any Lexus in terms of cabin noise is road noise. Lexus doesn't do a great job of isolating road noise, and if something is going to pierce through the quiet cabin its always the road surface IMHO, which is why a good set of tires is REALLY important to how the LS, or any Lexus rides. On my Dad's Lincolns or Cadillacs the tires didn't matter, but they always have on the LS.
I've been emailing with a potential buyer for my 2010 LS460L (the one I just traded in to get my LS600hL). He asked the dealer some questions they didn't know, and they reached out to me to see if I would be willing to talk to a potential buyer. He even tracked me down on Club Lexus; he asked me if I was the guy who just traded for the green LS600hL that he read about here... Small world! He's going to test drive my old car tomorrow. He'll be getting a great car if he decides to take the leap!
So my new LS600hL is currently undergoing an exterior makeover today at Lexus of Omaha. They gave the car a very close lookover, and said they would give it a thorough clay-bar, buff, wax, etc. to make it shine like new! They did find two very small dings that can be PDR'd, but I'm going to wait for now on that, since I actually hadn't even seen them (and I'm super-picky). Of course, now that I know about them, I probably won't be able to "unsee" them, but I'm sure I could take the car back for that work separately if I decide to. They charge $69 for the first PDR and $25 each for each additional one.
I'm also having them program my new Key Card today so I can ditch the Fob...
2010 was notable for the 600hL as it was the last year the Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System was offered. Do you know if yours has it? It’s barely mentioned in the literature. If you read the 2011 press release they say the option was deleted for that year. Here is a screenshot of the product information where they mention it.
For 95 bucks I’d just have them do them while it’s there...
are they doing the bumper too?
I was tempted, but I figured I'd wait to see how noticeable the very small dents are after the car was fully detailed. I do still need to have the bumper replaced, so I can have the PDR work done then if I decide I'd like it. I've received two bids to replace the bumper so far. One came back at $1550, and it included a $200 charge for something related to retesting the proximity sensors in the bumper (which made little sense to me). The other, from Lexus of Omaha, was for $1240. I have one other trusted local small shop to check with before I decide which way to go. I've heard varying thoughts on how hard the Peridot Mica color will be to match. Some think the dark colors are easier, and some think the dark green will be difficult... I know that sometimes the plastic bumper covers look slightly different than the rest of the steel painted parts just because of the underlying difference in surfaces...
2010 was notable for the 600hL as it was the last year the Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System was offered. Do you know if yours has it? It’s barely mentioned in the literature. If you read the 2011 press release they say the option was deleted for that year. Here is a screenshot of the product information where they mention it.
I'm really not sure if my car includes the Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System. This is actually the first time I've ever heard of this system on an LS. I see no mention of the system on the build sheet I received from Lexus, so I assume I don't have it... Does anyone have a written description of what it's comprised of and what it's supposed to do?
Interesting point, aypues, and something I hadn't noticed, especially considering how many times I've read that Product Information PDF!
Rick, below is a Wikipedia link. I had read plenty about this system back in the day, but interestingly, the hype was all limited to the GS450h at the time.
It's an active anti-roll bar system to reduce body roll in tight cornering. A similar idea to KDSS in the GX, except APSSS uses motors for faster response time.
It's not on Maximus' build sheet either, not listed in the 2010 LSh brochure I was able to dig up, and I've been looking for the 2008 LS brochure with no luck. The Wikipedia link only lists the 2008 600 and the 2013 600 F-Sport (a non-US car), but that's - of course - not conclusive.
I had a 2007 GS450h with APSSS. I searched and searched to make sure it had it. Incredible handling!! It had AVS too, but tuned a bit too stiff for my taste - I have an 04 LS430 ultra now which I far prefer. I was thinking the LS600hL would be like the best possible with a soft ride AND good handling with APSSS!
here’s a screenshot from 2009 brochure showing it as an option
Score one point for Discount Tire! They replaced my two rear Pirelli P7 tires for new ones at no cost to me! The tires were actually originally installed on my LS460L 60 days ago, and I had driven around 1500 miles on them. Discount Tire really stepped up.
The original set could not be road force balanced below 26 lbs. The two new tires were able to balance out at 9 and 8 lbs respectively (with the Hunter's Smart Weight feature turned off - thanks for the tip, CaHa). The car now rides smooth as glass at all speeds.
Score one point for Discount Tire! They replaced my two rear Pirelli P7 tires for new ones at no cost to me! The tires were actually originally installed on my LS460L 60 days ago, and I had driven around 1500 miles on them. Discount Tire really stepped up.
The original set could not be road force balanced below 26 lbs. The two new tires were able to balance out at 9 and 8 lbs respectively (with the Hunter's Smart Weight feature turned off - thanks for the tip, CaHa). The car now rides smooth as glass at all speeds.
That's awesome! Glad they made it right for you.
Is it possible to test the current road force balace weight without performing a road force balance adjustment? How does one tell if a road force balance is needed? Would it only present as a vibration under different speeds or would it also present as tire/road noise?
You can test the road force by putting the wheel on the machine and running it, you can do it without having to adjust the balance...
An out of balance tire will feel like a shimmy at speeds over say 50-60 MPH...
My dealer put 2 new tires on, did a standard balance (I presume) and had 1 tech and a senior tech test drive the car (over 65 mph), and it was reported back to me that there was no shimmy or vibration, so I shouldn't have anything to worry about, correct? Just wondering if I should have my indy shop check the road force weight when they do the state inspection? I'm sensitive to vibration so I assume that I will feel it easily if it's an issue.
So, I would take what the dealer says with a grain of salt. All I can say is I have bought 4 sets of these tires, three of which have been on LS460s and I have never had an issue with all 4 balancing right away under 10lbs of road force, and I've never had an issue with them losing balance as they age which I've had happen with other tires. In my experience nobody makes higher quality throughout tires than Michelin, but I think these Pirellis are slightly smoother and quieter than the Michelin Premier's which would be the Michelin option. If you're worried just buy them locally where they can throw one away and put another one on if it happens to have an issue such as you did here, I wish we had Discount Tire.
One thing I HAVE noticed with the latest set is they do flat spot overnight. Never had an issue with any of the other sets doing that, only difference is this car has the 19s, and on the 2015 it was the 18s and the other set is on my old 2003 ES300 which has 60 series tires on 16s. The flat spotting is worked out within 2-3 miles usually, sometimes it lasts until right after I get on the highway which is maybe 4 miles. Little annoying, but it wouldn't stop me from buying the tires again.
So, I am close to buying new tires for my car. I don't have Discount Tire anywhere within 100 miles of where I live, so will be using a tire store in my neighborhood. Hoping to get the new tires before Memorial Day travel.
I am leaning toward the Pirelli P7s to save 10% over the Michelin Premiers. But I am also wondering whether the flat-spotting issue is specific to the Pirellis. I drive my Lexus only 2-3 times a week, so flat-spotting is a potential concern for me if I get the P7s. Steve, is it possible you are seeing this "problem" because you somewhat under-inflate your tires to 30-31 psi?
05-03-18, 02:27 PM
