2005 RX400 due out next summer!
#31
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I talked to a Lexus marketing manager at the Chicago Auto Show this past Feb about the performance and fuel mileage for the new hybrid RX on display (the outside looks identical to the regular RX330). He indicated at that time the performance would likely to be in the high 6s for 0 to 60 and fuel economy to be in the mid to high 30s. He said for a vehicle to be labeled "hybrid", it must meet certain (special) fuel economy criteria that is above the standard model. He was guessing the price premium would be a few thousands over the standard version. I voiced my concern on this new and unproven technology. He said this technology of coupling the engine and electric motor together is fairly new but the components (engine and electric motor) are not new at all and the technology is not unproven since Toyota has cars currently in production with the same setup with no problems. Besides he said Lexus has a proven track record for its reliability on all their line-up especially the current hybrids so consumers should not be afraid to buy this hybrid RX. He said other manufacturers will likely come up with their own versions of the hybrid on their SUVs soon too to address the number 1 complaint with SUV owners which is poor fuel economy. He seemed to indicate the demand on the hyrid RX will likely be higher for areas with high gas prices (e.g. CA).
As far as I am concerned, this hybrid seems to offer best of both worlds--performance and fuel economy. I know I for one will likely be buying this new hybrid. Glad we held off getting the current RX330!
As far as I am concerned, this hybrid seems to offer best of both worlds--performance and fuel economy. I know I for one will likely be buying this new hybrid. Glad we held off getting the current RX330!
#32
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Here's an interesting article on the Toyota hybrid from today's Wall Street Journal. Not sure the picture and chart will show up here.
Toyota's Prius: No Plug Required
By SHOLNN FREEMAN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
DETROIT -- In a new push to expand sales of the Prius gas-electric hybrid car, Toyota Motor Corp. wants to get one thing straight: No, you don't have to plug it in.
Toyota hopes to expand sales of the hybrid vehicle by 70% next year -- from 21,000 projected this year to 36,000 in 2004. But the auto maker concedes that most consumers are still puzzled by hybrids, which combine an electric motor with a gasoline engine to get much better fuel economy than traditional cars. In surveys, Toyota has found that about half of all consumers either wrongly believe that you have to plug in hybrids or say they don't know enough to answer the question.
With more hybrids coming, auto makers badly need consumers to grasp the technology.
Toyota will begin selling its redesigned 2004 Prius hybrid to U.S. customers in October and will launch a broad marketing campaign to fuel sales.
In October, Toyota dealers will begin selling the 2004 model of the Prius, which has been redesigned. The new model has more interior room and gets about 55 miles per gallon, a 15% increase over the previous model. The base price of the Prius is $20,000. Later this year, Toyota also plans to begin selling a hybrid version of the full-size Tundra pickup truck and the Lexus RX 330.
Old notions have to die first, though. Consumers haven't forgotten that early versions of fuel-efficient electric cars needed to be plugged in for power. Fuel-efficient cars were also tagged as impractical because they couldn't fit many passengers or people's stuff. Honda Motor Co.'s four-year-old Insight, which only has seats for two, never became popular. But Honda's hybrid version of the Civic, which consumers think of as a normal-size car has sold well. Toyota dealers say they have sold out of their 2003 Prius inventory and are predicting strong demand for the 2004 model.
Toyota officials think its new marketing effort will both explain the technology and help expand the car's customer based beyond a core of celebrity and tech-savvy customers. In new Prius commercials, a voiceover reminds buyers that "you never have to plug it in." The marketing campaign was developed by Saatchi & Saatchi, Los Angeles, and previewed at a news conference in Detroit Wednesday. Deborah Wahl Meyer, a Toyota marketing manager, repeated the point several times. "It's in everything that we talk about," she said.
Toyota is also targeting mainstream customers, and not just tree-huggers. The new commercials will show during prime time during "ER," "Alias," "CSI Miami" and on cable channels such as Discovery Science and Court TV. Toyota will advertise in Fortune, Newsweek and Time. Previously, Toyota had depended on the Internet and word-of-mouth to drive sales. Toyota officials wouldn't say how much they will spend on the new advertising.
Toyota hasn't given up on celebrities. In July, Toyota organized a private showing of the Prius to movie stars, producers and directors in Los Angeles. Toyota said it has 1,200 preorders of the 2004 Prius, including 24 orders from the Hollywood event.
Some of the glitterati were also looking for more than a showing. "Everyone wants a free one," Ms. Meyer said. "But we're not giving away free ones."
Updated September 11, 2003
By SHOLNN FREEMAN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
DETROIT -- In a new push to expand sales of the Prius gas-electric hybrid car, Toyota Motor Corp. wants to get one thing straight: No, you don't have to plug it in.
Toyota hopes to expand sales of the hybrid vehicle by 70% next year -- from 21,000 projected this year to 36,000 in 2004. But the auto maker concedes that most consumers are still puzzled by hybrids, which combine an electric motor with a gasoline engine to get much better fuel economy than traditional cars. In surveys, Toyota has found that about half of all consumers either wrongly believe that you have to plug in hybrids or say they don't know enough to answer the question.
With more hybrids coming, auto makers badly need consumers to grasp the technology.
Toyota will begin selling its redesigned 2004 Prius hybrid to U.S. customers in October and will launch a broad marketing campaign to fuel sales.
In October, Toyota dealers will begin selling the 2004 model of the Prius, which has been redesigned. The new model has more interior room and gets about 55 miles per gallon, a 15% increase over the previous model. The base price of the Prius is $20,000. Later this year, Toyota also plans to begin selling a hybrid version of the full-size Tundra pickup truck and the Lexus RX 330.
Old notions have to die first, though. Consumers haven't forgotten that early versions of fuel-efficient electric cars needed to be plugged in for power. Fuel-efficient cars were also tagged as impractical because they couldn't fit many passengers or people's stuff. Honda Motor Co.'s four-year-old Insight, which only has seats for two, never became popular. But Honda's hybrid version of the Civic, which consumers think of as a normal-size car has sold well. Toyota dealers say they have sold out of their 2003 Prius inventory and are predicting strong demand for the 2004 model.
Toyota officials think its new marketing effort will both explain the technology and help expand the car's customer based beyond a core of celebrity and tech-savvy customers. In new Prius commercials, a voiceover reminds buyers that "you never have to plug it in." The marketing campaign was developed by Saatchi & Saatchi, Los Angeles, and previewed at a news conference in Detroit Wednesday. Deborah Wahl Meyer, a Toyota marketing manager, repeated the point several times. "It's in everything that we talk about," she said.
Toyota is also targeting mainstream customers, and not just tree-huggers. The new commercials will show during prime time during "ER," "Alias," "CSI Miami" and on cable channels such as Discovery Science and Court TV. Toyota will advertise in Fortune, Newsweek and Time. Previously, Toyota had depended on the Internet and word-of-mouth to drive sales. Toyota officials wouldn't say how much they will spend on the new advertising.
Toyota hasn't given up on celebrities. In July, Toyota organized a private showing of the Prius to movie stars, producers and directors in Los Angeles. Toyota said it has 1,200 preorders of the 2004 Prius, including 24 orders from the Hollywood event.
Some of the glitterati were also looking for more than a showing. "Everyone wants a free one," Ms. Meyer said. "But we're not giving away free ones."
Updated September 11, 2003
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Here's the link to an article on the Prius and the auto park system (real brief on the auto park system and a mention of Lexus):
http://www.msnbc.com/news/960821.asp
http://www.msnbc.com/news/960821.asp
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I don't think you'll lose too much cargo space for the battery because if the new Prius is a good guide for what's coming in the RX400, there are only 2 batteries that I know of--a big one and a small one. Since the RX400 is setup more for performance and less on fuel economy, it may require bigger batteries. This is just a wild guess on my part. Anyone with an inside scoop on this?
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Originally posted by drurywoodson
Does anyone have any idea as to how much cargo space you lose accomodating all the extra batteries?
Does anyone have any idea as to how much cargo space you lose accomodating all the extra batteries?
John
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I contacted our dealer about this new hybrid RX400 after reading about it here. They said the interest on this hybrid has been so strong that they are very concerned that they won't have enough to sell based on the number of people already registered on their wait list. They said quite a few who are on the wait list are current RX300 customers who are unhappy with the fuel mileage. They suggest anyone who's interested in getting this new hybrid needs to get his/her on some dealer's list fast. They said a good example is the newly redesigned Toyota Prius hybrid. It is so popular that Toyota can't make enough to sell.
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Originally posted by LexusPia
"But while the RX400H will be tuned for 4-cyl economy and V-8 performance, all hybrid Toyotas, including the Highlander and Sienna, will be tuned to emphasize high fuel mileage.
Sounds like the new RX400H will emphasize "performance" whereas others will be for "economy".
"But while the RX400H will be tuned for 4-cyl economy and V-8 performance, all hybrid Toyotas, including the Highlander and Sienna, will be tuned to emphasize high fuel mileage.
Sounds like the new RX400H will emphasize "performance" whereas others will be for "economy".
It specifically says that ALL hybrid Toyotas will be tuned for economy. Are we saying the Lexus is performance tuned because it's a Lexus and not a Toyota?
RickC
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The latest MT has published the following preliminary specs and numbers and they sure look very interesting indeed:
Drivetrain: AWD
Curb wt: 4,000 lb
Engine: 300 hp total (3.3L 230hp V6 + 70hp from front & rear electric motors)
Price: $38,500
EPA mpg: 36 city / 32 hwy
No estimate on 0 to 60 performance but guessing 6.5 sec based on the weight and power.
Drivetrain: AWD
Curb wt: 4,000 lb
Engine: 300 hp total (3.3L 230hp V6 + 70hp from front & rear electric motors)
Price: $38,500
EPA mpg: 36 city / 32 hwy
No estimate on 0 to 60 performance but guessing 6.5 sec based on the weight and power.
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Originally posted by Lil4X
Can't imagine fuel savings ever making the hybrid cost effective. It's a techno-thing. Hope the performance will make it worth the investment!
Can't imagine fuel savings ever making the hybrid cost effective. It's a techno-thing. Hope the performance will make it worth the investment!
One other question I have is how effective the batteries will be and how their longevity might be affected by temperature extremes. Are the mileage benefits offered by hybrid technology the same when operated in below-freezing temperatures?
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I read about another technology, hydraulic regenerative braking systems that I'd bet, combined with electric-hybrid technology ought to be able to far exceed current expectations for solely-electric hybrids using today's electric technologies and rather limited battery capacities. The two techs together might get our SUVs to 30-50 mpg, imo. I think I read these things can get the car back to about 80% of its prebraking speed, that allows smaller engines, etc. . .....
(Disclosure, I own no direct interest in any regenerative technology, just read about 'em.)
(Disclosure, I own no direct interest in any regenerative technology, just read about 'em.)
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I have read about this too. Actually, I thought either the Honda or the Toyota was currently using it. Is this the technology that helps charge the batteries when braking? If so, one of the above manufacturers is already using it, I just don't remember which.
RickC
RickC
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Rick, electric regenerative braking converts the kinetic energy of the car into electric energy to recharge batteries. This hydraulic regenerative system, I believe, converts the kinetic energy into stored hydraulic energy that provides a boost to get the car back to something close - I think I recall about 70-80%, WOW, of the car's original speed (energy). If it can work, and it should as it is just basic mechanics notwithstanding the technical difficulties, it might VERY significantly increase fuel mileage.
Last edited by parula; 10-08-03 at 03:43 PM.