Been reading the forum for past 2 years when we were leaning towards a SUV to replace the sedan. 1st time posting since the time has arrived (or almost). Got a rarely used minivan last year so sedan is gone now. Minivan will serve cross country trips with parents / in-laws. We figured recently that one of the reason for back pain was the lower seating in sedan. Current Minivan is better than the sedan that was gone from seating position and comfort perspective, so I do not get the severe pain nowadays.

Never owned a SUV but always wanted to. Wife wants it. Son loves RX, nothing else. Mostly will be used for in-town trips and out of state trips when parents / in-laws are not part of the trip (just 4 of us). Was looking into Subaru Ascent and Highlander. Ascent went off the list after reading about issues and it was also new to the market. Top level Highlander vs Lexus base model has not much price difference. And then the heart said - you are living once, why not just enjoy the best at the price point?. This vehicle will most likely be transferred over to our son when he finishes college hence going to be a long term ownership. Though he likes Tesla, he will not be comfortable in their sedan given his height and I am not come to terms with their software yet; but I may in the future if the price is right. Or son may trade the RX for Lexus, but that is a long shot to think about it now.

We sat in a 450hL before Covid but no test drive. Felt spacious, enough room for 4 people (with 3 people at 6'), did not care much about not-so-usable 3rd row but found that it may be ok for a very short trip. Read through the forum, found many people talking about 350 but not many posts about 450. Here is what I know of aout h and hL.

1. I love Pano roof but read about structural issue so I can pass it on. I would be ok with no moonroof too - hardly used them in sedan and in minivan. Winner: 450hL
2. I am going to load the vehicle with best options - luxury package, HK audio/12.3" screen/Nav, adaptive/LED lights, heated/ventilated seats, 360 parking view. The price difference comes to few grands but it matters. Winner: 450h
3. Prefer 5 seater SUV than non-usable 5th and 6th seats. Winner: 450h
4. Wife will be the primary driver so reduced length matters even with loaded tech/cameras. Winner: 450h
5. People talked about $ savings in maintenance on 450h/L. Winner: Tie
6. AC blows better than 350 even at a stop. Winner: Tie
7. At this price, why not a Japanese made car. Winner: 450hL
8. I started DIY for oil change, Trans Fluid change, brake fluid change, etc. Read that some of these may be difficult or need visit to service center with the way it is designed because of sealed ATF pan, electronic parking brake and so on. Winner: None

Why not 350? Two reasons - Firstly the perception based on issues reported in this forum which had very less posts about 450 and secondly long term savings on maintenance.

I know the decision comes down to me after test drive, but I am sort of a person who takes input from people around me and make an informed decision. That makes me not to regret later whatever be the decision.So let us not worry about test drive first, buy what you like type of ideas.

The inputs I seek are:
A. Interested to hear about issues that bothered you or made you to visit service center from those who have driven or owned 450h / 450hL (especially 2018 MY onwards). Leave the 5 vs 4 seats (or 6?) and all the features aside.

B. Though I saw posts in bits and pieces about less maintenance in 450, is there a comprehensive list of items that do not require maintenance for a long time compared to 350? For example, brake pads last long (X miles in 450 vs Y miles only in 350), no timing belt change, Alternator replacement, Water Pump, 12v battery, etc. I even tried deep search on the forum but there is no comprehensive list I could get to.

While the 2nd input helps me to seal the deal on h compared to 350, inputs on 1st will help me decide between h and L. I may take few more months before making the purchase (waiting for offices to reopen which will force us to get the 2nd car) so I am all ears to hear you. And thanks in advance for your inputs.

 

I don't own the 450, but I've owned two 350s, and they're mostly the same except for the electric motors. If you can afford the 450H, that's fine. I love my car. Concerns -- "lifetime transmission fluid" is BS, in my world. When my car hits 50K miles, I'll be having it changed out, and YES, there is an official Lexus procedure to do that. Oil change -- I call BS on 10K mile intervals, mine gets changed every 5K miles with Amsoil synthetic oil, and the dealer does it for me. My car does mostly 3 mile suburban short trips, and that is the hardest service of all -- often eight to ten starts per day. The back seat cup holder will not survive use by a 6 year old, so be forewarned. Don't buy it with the Bridgestone junk Ecopia tires -- make the dealer put on the Michelins.

 

The spare tire on the 450hL is under the vehicle and not inside the luggage area as it is in the 450h. I can imagine that would be a problem in the event of a flat tire?
The rear window wiper is outside and at the bottom of the glass on the 450hL. In the 450h, the window wiper is concealed under the upper overhang.
The increased luggage storage is not that great.
The driver's seat on the 450hL has 4 inches less leg room.compared to the 450h.
The 3d row seats are only for small children.
In conclusion, if you are not going to use the 3d row seating, don't go for the hL.
As for the "back pain", borrow one of the current year loaners from the dealer for the day and try it out for several miles.
After owning several Rx 350s, I am very satisfied with the 2020 450h that I have now. MPG is about the same on the highway, 30MPG in city driving on recommended premium fuel.

 

Did not know these about 450hL hence very helpful...
Spare tire under the vehicle. Winner: 450h. This is a real difficulty during those times when needed especially night or during rain.
Driver loses 4 inch legroom. Winner: 450h. This is a big trouble for me and wife, and possibly for our son when he starts driving as all of us are 6' tall.
Rear wiper is not concealed. Winner: 450h. Not a must concealed requirement.
Luggage space - not much needed for local trips but not a big advantage. Winner: Tie

Looks like there are more advantages to 450h than hL so far - could be a waste of money to buy 4" extra length vehicle with non-usable 3rd row with reduced driver legroom; except that it is made in Japan. oh boy, I am shattered!!

On the maintenance, I could use Toyota service centers. Any inputs on the items that require 'no maintenance / delayed maintenance / replacement not required parts' on 450h vs 350? This could probably offset the cost of premium fuel requirement and DIY vs dealer cost on regular maintenance items? 450h owners with 100K+ miles on the vehicle could provide some inputs I guess.

 

Another thot, the "Hybrid" battery warranty has been increased from 100,000 miles to 150,000 miles in 2020 model and the number of years increased from 8 up to 10.

 

Not for warranty work. Somewhere on this forum is a post where someone tried that and learned that Toyota dealers have no ability to collect from Lexus for the cost of warranty repairs.

 

I have a 450 hl, which I wanted for the increase in cargo area. The rear door on the hl is not sloped as much, so it can carry taller items. For me the cargo area is the big issue and not the 3rd row. I opened the seats and stored them just to make sure the electronics worked, but since then they are always/permanently stowed. I suppose the rest of the car is probably the same.

Long ago I went with Toyota hybrids, because of the maintenance. The CVT transmission is perfect and never slips or needs “updates”, and contrary to so some people’s opinions never needs maintenance. The MPG savings are just nickels and dimes, the real savings are in maintenance and reliability.

I have a fully loaded hl, but I am not sure I would buy it over a Highlander, as I don’t the think the 15,000 in cost is worth the money. An example is the ML system. I might get rid of the hl and buy a new Sienna hybrid, which is better for road trips and hauling.

 

We have had 3 RX450h's and 1 Avalon Hybrid over the years. I never had to replace the brakes on any of them. Once you "learn" how to drive a hybrid, you will let the generators do the bulk of your braking for you.

One thing to consider is the HUD. I use to think they were just a toy and an annoyance. I don't have one in my present Lexus but have had two vehicles with one and have one in my GLE 350. It was annoying at first but after I got use to it, I will never have another vehicle without one. I rarely have to take my eyes off the road for anything.

 

I have 450hL and I am 6’4” (on a bad day...no joking) and very long in the legs and I still don’t have the seat all the way back with several inches of clearance between my knees and dash.

I don’t find the 4” less leg room to be true vs the 450H. That’s a huge difference and the spec sheet guys must be measuring from different spots between the versions. The only thing I wish was the B pillar further back as when I look left because I am so tall and do need the seat further back it’s a bit of a blind spot but that’s the same with all cars I have driven. Was going to get a 2020 Highlander but their blind spot on the B Pilar is ridiculously wide and very troubling.

I bought L for the more vertical cargo space due to less sloped rear window, not for the 3rd seat but when I new that extra room I know I got it. I put in a large cardboard box in both versions at the dealer that miraculously was laying next to one of the RX they had in the garage. The L sold me on the extra space versus having to stuff everything into a tighter space. I wish they made a 3rd row seat delete option.

 

We already have a minivan so not another one for sure as a 2nd vehicle.

I am not sold on Highlander as I mentioned, it is the heart saying ‘get Lexus and enjoy the ride since you live only once’ feeling at the moment.

Thanks to all for great input so far. I will give some time to think over before deciding between h and hL.

Fully loaded 450h/L are hard to find on the lot. Do we get same level of discount if custom ordered vs picking one at the lot?

I still feel there is a gap regarding availability of a comprehensive list of maintenance items that owners avoid or spend less on 450h vs 350.

 

Toyota Venza is back again for 2021, hybrid only and 4cyl gas engine and 40 mpg city.

 

not BS at all. Especially with the hybrid when engine works only half of the time in stop and go traffic.

 

I am now more inclined to 450h at this point with an assumption that 450h made in Canada is equally good in comparison to 450hL made in Japan after 5 years into 4th gen.

How good or bad is the pano roof? Aesthetically it looks nice but does not seem to open up fully but kids may like it. How about structural rigidity?

Also would like to know more about HUD (and I love this feature). I looked at materials and found that it shows vehicle speed, RPM, audio track/station, gear, lane assist, navigation. What else does it show? Is the navigation shown in HUD good enough to not to look at maps in console? Does it recognize stop signs and speed limits, and show those signs too?

Is it possible to add individual options without luxury or premium package? There is mixed views on thigh extender, and I can live with art leather. Not decided on memory settings so thinking about saving money by not ordering these packages. I would like ML, tripe beam LED lights, heated/cooled front and heated 2nd row seats, 360 view/BSM.

It is stupid to pay for Navi to get ML system, what a waste of 2K when a phone can do this better. Has anyone tried to get this discounted but got ML just for 1K? Lexus should separate out these two as two different options.

 

The pano roof does not open as far as you'd think it would. Although, it gives the car a more "airy" feel compared to the traditional sunroof. You do give away some of the structural rigidity, but it doesn't have an impact on driving dynamics. While rare, pano roofs can shatter - although, it's not a common issue with RXs.

HUD also shows the outside temperature at the very top when you start the vehicle, and the refreshed RXs will show stop signs and speed limits in the HUD. The HUD will only show the turn-by-turn details (arrows and street name) so it won't show the actual map on the windshield. You can also customize it to show the ECO meter instead of RPM. You'll also find the DRCC, LTA and PCS functions on the HUD as well.

 

I would never get the ML again. I would always get the Nav, because I would not like having to always wire the phone. Sure the phone nav is better, but not worth the inconvienience. If the phone connection was bluetooth for nav, I would go for it.