fillerf

I Got new good dedicated Winter tires on mine . A totally different car on snow and ice now. The old ones looked ok, but hard rubber. Breaking wise it behaves normally. I have had both bmw 5 and 7 series. And the the GS to same behavior in winter.

spineman

Only some small states like Delaware let you get away with no front plates
And thank you for the compliment!

Gina450h

Question removed due to harassment from “bcLexus”, a self-described “fanatic”

Knucklebus

First, it sounds like you are driving at the ragged edge of safety. Just because you CAN go faster than most anyone on the slippery road, doesn't mean you should. Without studded snow tires or chains, all vehicles slide at the same speed. NOBODY stops as well as they can accelerate on ICE. I used to run the tow truck for my dad and we put chains on the wrecker when it got bad. I was working the winter of 78-79 and we stayed very busy. Some nights we declined to get out even though we could go almost anywhere when needed. The secret is going slow. If you want to go fast, you go in the ditch. I pulled nearly as many 4x4s out of the ditches as anything because the 4x4 gave them a sense of false security. Sort of like your traction control.

Having said that, what mode are you running in? Are you in ECO, Normal or Sport? Those change the throttle curve. I'd run ECO in anything slippery because it slows down the throttle response. I can't imagine the technology would change to make the car less safe. There are wheel sensors, yaw sensors and acceleration sensors. It's like Santa, it know when you've been good or bad.

Finally, if you are relying on the nannies to keep you stable, you are driving on the ragged edge for conditions. They kick in to keep you from getting in trouble but they are no substitute for safe driving. If you are constantly asking them to "save you" from yourself, you might be driving too aggressively for conditions. The fact others are in ditches should be your first clue.

bclexus

I don't understand why you are putting the blame on the car for something that you are fully in control of. When you feel or sense the drive wheels slipping (spinning) when driving on ice or snow, your tires have lost traction. The cause for that is (a) the road surface, (b) the tires or (c) the person in control of the throttle. That last one is you! Traction control would be identical for a 2015 model and 2018 model. If there was a hair difference you would never be able to notice it. If you are blaming the steering for the car slipping sideways (sliding), you are in charge of that too! Look at whose hands are on the steering wheel...

Being a rear wheel drive car, if the drive wheels slip (spin) or the car slides on a road covered in ice or snow, it doesn't have anything to do with the car itself. You are the one mashing on the accelerator pedal and turning the steering wheel - the more pressure you apply to the accelerator pedal, the more power you apply to the rear wheels. If you turn the steering wheel at the wrong time or turn it too much, you're going to slide. If the tires slip (spin), you have applied too much pressure on the accelerator pedal. It's as simple as that! You - the driver - are the one that is out-of-control with the amount of throttle you attempt, or when and how much you turn the steering wheel - not the car. I don't see your contention. Not one iota. Your theory does not hold water...

Gina450h

Hii Knucklebus: closer to the edge than I like but so seems everyone else. In fact, the point is that even with brand new Michelin Snow tires, I’m on the ragged edge (sometimes) at 65moh while I’m watching minivans and all,other models of vehicles (even semi trucks) speeding last at 80mph.

Ive driven these GS450h cars for 6 years straight now as primary vehicle (also have a L’s 570 and rx450h….have owned F150/250 pickup trucks, clutch cars etc over many years) and with incredibly safe driving history, so no novice here.

This is about this specific model of car. On icy highway roads I never mess with the modes (in default driving mode). I only ISE Snow mode when moving under 40mph and generally in deeper snow.

At issue is the handling of the GS450h on specific road type (icy highway). My 2018 model can’t hold a candle to most other cars I see on the highway in terms of feeling stable on the road apparently. I don’t recall my 2015 ever having the same (slightly unstable) feel.

You betcha, I am slowing down; more than I ever had to with the 2015 and I cannot figure out why these cars feel so different.

Programming of the electronic steering, wheel sensing/synchronization, power levels to wheels when touching accelator (that’s when I notice difference in stability feeling of wheels on the road the most). It’s something. I’m wondering if anyone here might have the technical knowledge to explain why the 2018 feels less stable on similar roads.

Honestly, the way this 2018 feels this winter in handling, I wouldn’t buy another if it was only primary winter car. I put >100k miles on the 2015 and now up to 88k on the 2018 so I’ve driven them both lots; they handle differently on icy highways.

GregCanada

Tires make the largest difference in snow. The type of snow makes a large difference with different tires. Some are better in warmer, slushier snow, while others excel in hardpack, or others in cold snow. Perhaps the type of snow you are driving in is different. Slushier snow is always a handful, even with good tires.

Gina450h

“Traction control would be identical for the 2018 and 2015 models”….Are you sure about that? You sound like you think you know a lot as a fact but weren’t able to address any of the other specifics I asked about the programming aspects. Also, thanks for your humorous driving lesson (w/ pics, bravo!).

You just convinced me to simply take my question to some of my other PhD Engineering faculty colleagues who actually program electric and hybrid vehicles. It will spare me the wast of time reading what I’m sure you think was a schooling. :-)

However, many thanks to others who offered their genuine advice/ comments regarding tires, etc. Enjoy your day.

bclexus

Driving at 65 mph on icy or snow covered roads is completely asinine and a death wish!

You said; "I’m watching minivans and all other models of vehicles (even semi trucks) speeding past at 80mph."I seriously doubt that - not on icy or snow covered roads!

How do you know your 2018 model "can't hold a candle to most other cars you see on the highway in terms of feeling stable on the road" when you can only drive one vehicle at a time? Pretty strange comment!

bclexus

Moderator edit: bclexus please exit this thread.

Im2bz2p345

Hi Gina,

Firstly, welcome to the forum. I see that you're new to ClubLexus.

Clearly you have extensive driving experience and in particular are a very unique individual to have owned BOTH a 2015 GSh -AND- a 2018 GSh. I can tell you right away, you're the first person to post on CL that has owned both model years. I don't think you'll find a DIRECT answer here in terms of differences (if any). That honestly seems like a question to possibly get answered by a Toyota Engineer or a Master Tech that specializes in Lexus hybrids.

Given your detailed write-ups, I would image there may be some sort of difference between your vehicles (perhaps even if that is a "perceived difference"). Were both of your GSh vehicles RWD or is one AWD? Are they both the base model (not the F-Sport package)? I ask because starting in 2017, Lexus offered a limited slip differential (LSD) with the F-Sport package across the GS lineup (both hybrid & non-hybrid). I also know dynamic rear steering was an option with the F-Sport package.

Apparently having LSD can cause more oversteer in the snow: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/wou...onths.3257218/

Another difference that I could think of was the 6-speed vs 8-speed transmission, but that got changed in the 2015 model year so both of your hybrid vehicles must have had the same 8-speed transmission.

One last thing that I can recall is that @peteharvey put together this amazing chart/graphic of the differences between coils/sway bars/dampers over the years. Unless your vehicles had a difference in sway bars, that's the only difference that I can think of, but I doubt that would cause such massive difference in how you perceive the vehicles to drive in the snow.

Source: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...l#post11119791



Anyway if you do get a reputable source to confirm/deny any differences between the model years, please do share as it would be valuable for our little community here of hybrid owners.

All the best and stay safe driving in all that MI snow! I used to live in the Midwest and I know that I wouldn't want to be driving my 2013 RWD Lexus in the snow without proper snow tires/chain/etc. Just for fun, I took my vehicle around our neighborhood block during our Texas snowpocalypse last year and with all season tires; it was bloody scary having such a powerful vehicle (high torque machine) without proper traction.


~ im2bz2p345

Knucklebus

I look at this the same way I do with people that believe cold air kits make more HP, it is all perception. All two ton cars of the same model and drive train but a few years apart will drive substantially like all the other models of that car. As previously stated, weather and tires are about the only thing that CAN change and have any significant effect on the experience. I will be greatly surprised if you find any ECU differences pertaining to ABS/stability. Unless there was a problem, it almost certainly didn't change and if they found a problem, they would have had a recall to correct it.

Gina450h

Thank you!! Finally, a great technical reply; I suspect the answer is in what you have posted somewhere and it will take me a few days to go through the vehicle records and sort it out.

Both our 2015&2018 are the base models of the 6 cyl hybrid (not the F sport) and I’m pretty sure both were RWD but I need to confirm on the 2015 (as I recall the 2015 was one of the earlier models of the 6-cyl hybrid engine in this sedan).

i will look closely into your table with the relevant specs that I can find for both models I own.

It’s important to me as I’m getting ready to purchase (once pandemic supply issues ease) a new either ES300h (apparently FWD) or the 2022 LS hybrid (which indicates AWD) so the winter highway driving wheel slippage hopefully wouldn’t be an issue in those models. I recall being told early on that the RWD was a necessary feature due the layout of engine/battery etc. in these models. It’s terrific that Lexus has apparently gotten away from the RWD.

Neither our 2015 or 2018 has ever been great on snow; we turn off traction control to climb neighbor hills and use snow mode as needed; the wheel slippage/instability feels very different between the 2 cars but as 1 cars in Seattle and the other in upper Midwest Can’t do size by side even if I wanted (I don’t - it’s the type of thing professional driver/engineer would need to figure out) or it’s buried in the specs or programming algorithms.

I’ll read up on your suggestions and let you know if I’m able to attribute the difference noted btwn the 2015/8. It’s somewhat subtle, but draining when driving in a snowstorm for >300 miles of lake effect snow. Thank you Im2bp2345!! 👍



Update Im2bp2345: just had detailed discussion with my Lexus mechanic. As the slipping that has been bothering me is predominantly in the Front Wheels (rear slippage doesn’t scare me as I know what it’s from)….what I’ve been noticing is definitely in the front wheels. The 2015 model was produced in the first 9mos of that year while my 2018 was delivered in June 2018 and had a different model of Sway Bar on the front axle (from your helpful friend’s table). Please thank that fellow who posted that table. My 2 models have identical RWD, hp engine, and most other relevant features.

Although I’m no expert on what sway bars do mechanic says it fits with my noticing this instability/slippage on certain highway road surfaces Yesterday road where it bothered me most was seemingly clear but with surface ice films due to temps under 20C.

The 2015 model never gave this kind of slippage in the front with brand new snow tires now on my 2018. I had noticed it before on a couple of other snowy surfaces but was attributing it to my tires. My brand new Michelin Precision snow tires did little to nothing to abate the phenomenon. My mechanic said that if I don’t like it only option is a new car.

Thanks again Im2bp; I can live with it (and baby it) for another year now that I know the cause. Please thank your friend for posting that excellent parts table! 👍

Lwerewolf

The 4GS refresh has been discussed extensively, the chassis (read: shocks/bushings "tune", probably the "nannies" too) was "softened up" quite a bit for the facelift, from what I've read. Could be that, could be something to do with the alignment, bad tire pressures, different tire sizes, f-sport vs non f-sport, I think not all models have the rear wheel steering as well... tons of possibilities.

No LSD is stock on any GS hybrid model. The first hybrid that came with a Torsen was (well, is) the LC500h.

Knucklebus

Anti sway bars, especially the difference between the two different sway bars for different model years, will have no effect unless you are cornering pretty heavily and I seriously doubt that was the case on snow.

The sole purpose of anti sway bars is to keep the left and right side of the vehicle from getting too far apart in a curve when the inside tries to lift and the outside tries to squat. The spring action of the bar will moderate the articulation.