BMW 330ci vs IS300
08-10-01, 08:56 AM
#3
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330i vs IS300
#1.AN IS300 will not outrun a M3. PERIOD.
#2. IS300 is a very nice car, but every magazine test says its behind the BMW.
#3. IS300.... NO STICK !
#4. Still a Toyota.
#5. Resale, the BMW has better market resale.
Still need more?
This forum will tel you Lexus, a BMW forum will say BMW.
I have owned both and now drive a BMW.
#2. IS300 is a very nice car, but every magazine test says its behind the BMW.
#3. IS300.... NO STICK !
#4. Still a Toyota.
#5. Resale, the BMW has better market resale.
Still need more?
This forum will tel you Lexus, a BMW forum will say BMW.
I have owned both and now drive a BMW.
08-10-01, 09:13 AM
#4
Lexus Champion
I'm not sure(but maybe) exactly what Lexus_IS300 was talking about, but with performance upgrades such as a $4000 turbo kit or S/C kit, exhaust, ecu upgrade, etc..... The IS3 will faster than a M3 and cheaper than a fully loaded 330i.
Welcome to the Forum......
Welcome to the Forum......
08-10-01, 09:20 AM
#6
Lexus Champion
I'll go for the IS3 for quality, styling, freshness of new car image to the market, IT's A LEXUS, longevity of ownership will be much cheaper to own than a Bimmer, IT'S A LEXUS, service is the best, tested equally or better than competitors, IT'S A LEXUS...
Seriously you can not go wrong with either!!! You will save about $5k - 6k with the IS3... That's the largest PRO for the IS3 and biggest CON against the 330i... otherwise it's a flip of a coin.
Seriously you can not go wrong with either!!! You will save about $5k - 6k with the IS3... That's the largest PRO for the IS3 and biggest CON against the 330i... otherwise it's a flip of a coin.
08-10-01, 10:56 AM
#7
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Re: 330i vs IS300
Originally posted by AC Schnitzer
#1.AN IS300 will not outrun a M3. PERIOD.
#2. IS300 is a very nice car, but every magazine test says its behind the BMW.
#3. IS300.... NO STICK !
#4. Still a Toyota.
#5. Resale, the BMW has better market resale.
Still need more?
This forum will tel you Lexus, a BMW forum will say BMW.
I have owned both and now drive a BMW.
#1.AN IS300 will not outrun a M3. PERIOD.
#2. IS300 is a very nice car, but every magazine test says its behind the BMW.
#3. IS300.... NO STICK !
#4. Still a Toyota.
#5. Resale, the BMW has better market resale.
Still need more?
This forum will tel you Lexus, a BMW forum will say BMW.
I have owned both and now drive a BMW.
btw:
Is300 is 5 spd avalible NOW.
IS300 w/SC will out run M3
Resale value? hmm i dont know where you get your facts but MBW dont hold value for sh it.
Yes it is a toyota and toyota is #1 selling car in the world
i own number of BMW's in the past the quality and service of the car way behind Lexus
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08-10-01, 04:52 PM
#8
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With a name like AC Schnitzer, are we at all surprised that he chose the bimmer?? And yes, a 5 spd. IS with a s/c most likely will outrun a m3. Not to mention the fact that you'll still save close to $10k even after the purchase of the s/c.
And $48,500??..yeah right..good luck getting it for less than $50,000..just not possible!!
And $48,500??..yeah right..good luck getting it for less than $50,000..just not possible!!
08-10-01, 05:13 PM
#9
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Don't start the mod bull****
Fact remains, the M3 is the better performer. Comparing the IS300 to any M3 is an utter fallacy. And please, do not waste your time talking of IS300s with SCs, because for less money the previous E36 M3 can be had with an AA Turbo. Think an SC'd IS300 can keep up with that? Not a chance in hell. The fact remains that any car can be made faster than any other car with any given amount of money, and if speed is all you're after, then the best bang for the buck is a newer turbo Audi with a simple, single mod: a chip (although, a BOV/DV is needed as well, depending on the model and engine).
All I've owned for the past nine years has been Japanese cars in one iteration or another. I still own one:
They may all have been decently fast, especially the turbo models I've owned (Supra and VR-4), but not one of them had the feel of my E36 M3, and neither does the IS300. Not to mention that if you somehow make an IS300 truly powerful, you still must do something about its road wallow, although I am sure that a decent set of coilovers would do wonders.
Stop comparing the IS300 to the M3. E30/E36/E46, whatever. There is no comparison.
All I've owned for the past nine years has been Japanese cars in one iteration or another. I still own one:
They may all have been decently fast, especially the turbo models I've owned (Supra and VR-4), but not one of them had the feel of my E36 M3, and neither does the IS300. Not to mention that if you somehow make an IS300 truly powerful, you still must do something about its road wallow, although I am sure that a decent set of coilovers would do wonders.
Stop comparing the IS300 to the M3. E30/E36/E46, whatever. There is no comparison.
08-10-01, 05:37 PM
#10
and M3 with turbo or whatever will cost.......?
M3 with turbo.......... why should IS be hard to keep up with it? IS300 with turbo can get some 800rwhp (been done in Japan), 0-60 mid 3s. Don't mess with 2JZ.
AC thanks for proving that a new 2001 M3 is $48,500.00 which is about 10k over IS which can let the IS get some forced induction which means 318 328 330 M3 M5 whatever can try and catch up. I said TRY.
My family has owned BMWs and we got smarter. Here I am.
M3 with turbo.......... why should IS be hard to keep up with it? IS300 with turbo can get some 800rwhp (been done in Japan), 0-60 mid 3s. Don't mess with 2JZ.
AC thanks for proving that a new 2001 M3 is $48,500.00 which is about 10k over IS which can let the IS get some forced induction which means 318 328 330 M3 M5 whatever can try and catch up. I said TRY.
My family has owned BMWs and we got smarter. Here I am.
08-10-01, 08:42 PM
#11
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Oh, you're in Japan? Sorry.
95 OBDI M3 Turbo $18,000 Turbo $10,000 installed for a daily-driven 11.8 second car in mild tune on street tires.
However, I am in America, and I am talking American cars, that are available in America, and that currently roll on American streets (like the one described above, there are quite a few preying on the Miami streets from the boys at Active Autowerk http://www.activeautowerk.com, but they are not the only BMW turbo manufacturers in the US). My fault, I should have made that clear. I do admit I know nothing about the "2JZ," but I suspect that if it is available at all in America is most definitely only NA. Also, the original statement in question was that a IS300 could be made faster than an M3 for considerably less money. My only intent was to provide a faster car at even less money than the SC'd IS, since money seemed to be the paramount issue. Sorry.
I will say it again, the IS300 is in no way shape or form comparable to the BMW M3, be it E30/36/46. I am not here to hate on Lexus, they make a fine car, very reliable and their fit and finish is second to none. Not one of them has half the road feel, balance or handling of any BMW, be it M or non-M. You see, my family used to be all boaty Japanese cars like the one that you drive, GlobeCLK, and then, when I finally drove my first BMW and could afford it for myself, there I was -- In a car that, in stock form, was just as potent around any track as on the local highways.
Not one Lexus can make that claim. I drove every one of their offerings extensively (and like I had just stolen them
) while test driving for my own large sedan decision, and they are too openly, admittedly interested in Luxury first to attempt it. And until they come correct and offer a true sports car and not a luxury car with sporty aspirations, they will still be judged (LOL by car-mag cretins, I give you that) inferior to the standard set by BMW. Answer me this, Globe, why is it that every IS300 feels the need to challenge me at every light? Every time I'm just cruising on the highway? I'm not talking just the punk-*** riceboys, but even dip**** suits (I also concede that any car marque has its share of drivers that are a disgrace to the name, as I am sure you've encountered a few likely useless BMW drivers). I'll tell you why. It is because BMW's 3 series is the sports sedan standard and they all want to see how their Lexus matches up.
Of course, they don't match up. But my M3 isn't stock, so it's hardly a fair contest. But then, stock to stock is just as useless - as stated, no comparison.
However, I am in America, and I am talking American cars, that are available in America, and that currently roll on American streets (like the one described above, there are quite a few preying on the Miami streets from the boys at Active Autowerk http://www.activeautowerk.com, but they are not the only BMW turbo manufacturers in the US). My fault, I should have made that clear. I do admit I know nothing about the "2JZ," but I suspect that if it is available at all in America is most definitely only NA. Also, the original statement in question was that a IS300 could be made faster than an M3 for considerably less money. My only intent was to provide a faster car at even less money than the SC'd IS, since money seemed to be the paramount issue. Sorry.
I will say it again, the IS300 is in no way shape or form comparable to the BMW M3, be it E30/36/46. I am not here to hate on Lexus, they make a fine car, very reliable and their fit and finish is second to none. Not one of them has half the road feel, balance or handling of any BMW, be it M or non-M. You see, my family used to be all boaty Japanese cars like the one that you drive, GlobeCLK, and then, when I finally drove my first BMW and could afford it for myself, there I was -- In a car that, in stock form, was just as potent around any track as on the local highways.
Not one Lexus can make that claim. I drove every one of their offerings extensively (and like I had just stolen them
) while test driving for my own large sedan decision, and they are too openly, admittedly interested in Luxury first to attempt it. And until they come correct and offer a true sports car and not a luxury car with sporty aspirations, they will still be judged (LOL by car-mag cretins, I give you that) inferior to the standard set by BMW. Answer me this, Globe, why is it that every IS300 feels the need to challenge me at every light? Every time I'm just cruising on the highway? I'm not talking just the punk-*** riceboys, but even dip**** suits (I also concede that any car marque has its share of drivers that are a disgrace to the name, as I am sure you've encountered a few likely useless BMW drivers). I'll tell you why. It is because BMW's 3 series is the sports sedan standard and they all want to see how their Lexus matches up. Of course, they don't match up. But my M3 isn't stock, so it's hardly a fair contest. But then, stock to stock is just as useless - as stated, no comparison.
08-11-01, 01:09 AM
#12
Re: Oh, you're in Japan? Sorry.
I see what you're saying TT.
the "2JZ" I'm referring to is the 2JZ-GE/2JZ-GTE engines, which can be found in N/A form in the IS300, GS300, and the latest Supras. 2JZ-GTE the turbo form is the TT Supra engine. N/A 2JZ-GEs can bolt on a turbo and act almost the same as the GTE, basically talking about 550rwhp without internal modifications.
When I said money matters I mean since the IS300 is sold these days well-equipped for around 37k OTD, It's significantly cheaper than the new E46 M3. I don't know how much the E36 M3s cost when they were new but I think they should be over 40k, maybe something like 42k? Still around 5k more than the IS300. 5k isn't enough for IS to bolt on a turbo but the 10k difference from the E46 M3 is. That's why I'm saying the IS+turbo can run faster than the E46 M3, considering the money was spent on the IS.
IS300 is slightly lighter than the M3 (~3250 vs. ~3400), so if the IS300 gets the turbo treatment and also that 350rwhp (standard for 2JZ-GE bolt on turbos), it should be faster than the 340flywheel hp M3 which is also heavier. This math applies to the E46 M3 vs. IS300 where the cost is significantly different.
Generally people here believe BMW has bad reliability compared to Lexus but I think the M series is an exception. The quality is SUPPOSE to be better than normal BMWs, however I've heard that it's rare for the E36 M3's engine to last over 80k miles....?
It's true, I have to agree, BMWs do come in STOCK FORM with better handling characteristics. But that's what BMW is famous for. Luxury they don't compare to Mercedes, so if their performance isn't up there everyone at BMW can jump off a cliff.
My philosophy is, NONE of the cars in the world today is perfect, and each owner has a different definition of perfect. One way to suit everyone's need is MODIFICATIONS. That's why I chose GS300 over GS400, for the potential within the 2JZ-GE engine I got. So I don't think anyone's satisfied with a STOCK car. Including you. That's why you mod it. Soft suspension in Lexus? Mods. not enough power? Mods. It's the quality, luxury, and the durability that you CAN'NOT add. I find BMWs lacking those but that's just me.
Yes Luxury was Lexus's primary aim for the US market, it's just that the GS series hit the jackpot.
Every IS300 feels the need to challenge you maybe because the average age of IS drivers are significantly lower than other Lexuses, hence the greater chance of them wanting to RACE you. (M3 is also the primary target of many Japanese car drivers
) Same thing with more 323 and 328 drivers challenging me rather than 5 series drivers. Even worse, every 3 out of 4 Integras wanna race me. I'm sure you have the same problem. It's all the age of the drivers.
I'm young too but I'm not gonna go race 3 series sadans. They're not the sports sadan standard. Plenty of other sedans they'll lose to. If a 330i can slightly beat me, there's nothing that car should be proud of.
btw with no limit for money, what's the fastest M3 right now? No engine swaps or anything, just mods (bore up Turbo SC all okay. NOS no good.) Anything from a tuner company or something that'll be able to be crowned the FASTEST M3? I would like to see just how much stuff that engine can take.
the "2JZ" I'm referring to is the 2JZ-GE/2JZ-GTE engines, which can be found in N/A form in the IS300, GS300, and the latest Supras. 2JZ-GTE the turbo form is the TT Supra engine. N/A 2JZ-GEs can bolt on a turbo and act almost the same as the GTE, basically talking about 550rwhp without internal modifications.
When I said money matters I mean since the IS300 is sold these days well-equipped for around 37k OTD, It's significantly cheaper than the new E46 M3. I don't know how much the E36 M3s cost when they were new but I think they should be over 40k, maybe something like 42k? Still around 5k more than the IS300. 5k isn't enough for IS to bolt on a turbo but the 10k difference from the E46 M3 is. That's why I'm saying the IS+turbo can run faster than the E46 M3, considering the money was spent on the IS.
IS300 is slightly lighter than the M3 (~3250 vs. ~3400), so if the IS300 gets the turbo treatment and also that 350rwhp (standard for 2JZ-GE bolt on turbos), it should be faster than the 340flywheel hp M3 which is also heavier. This math applies to the E46 M3 vs. IS300 where the cost is significantly different.
Generally people here believe BMW has bad reliability compared to Lexus but I think the M series is an exception. The quality is SUPPOSE to be better than normal BMWs, however I've heard that it's rare for the E36 M3's engine to last over 80k miles....?
It's true, I have to agree, BMWs do come in STOCK FORM with better handling characteristics. But that's what BMW is famous for. Luxury they don't compare to Mercedes, so if their performance isn't up there everyone at BMW can jump off a cliff.
My philosophy is, NONE of the cars in the world today is perfect, and each owner has a different definition of perfect. One way to suit everyone's need is MODIFICATIONS. That's why I chose GS300 over GS400, for the potential within the 2JZ-GE engine I got. So I don't think anyone's satisfied with a STOCK car. Including you. That's why you mod it. Soft suspension in Lexus? Mods. not enough power? Mods. It's the quality, luxury, and the durability that you CAN'NOT add. I find BMWs lacking those but that's just me.
Yes Luxury was Lexus's primary aim for the US market, it's just that the GS series hit the jackpot.
Every IS300 feels the need to challenge you maybe because the average age of IS drivers are significantly lower than other Lexuses, hence the greater chance of them wanting to RACE you. (M3 is also the primary target of many Japanese car drivers
) Same thing with more 323 and 328 drivers challenging me rather than 5 series drivers. Even worse, every 3 out of 4 Integras wanna race me. I'm sure you have the same problem. It's all the age of the drivers.I'm young too but I'm not gonna go race 3 series sadans. They're not the sports sadan standard. Plenty of other sedans they'll lose to. If a 330i can slightly beat me, there's nothing that car should be proud of.
btw with no limit for money, what's the fastest M3 right now? No engine swaps or anything, just mods (bore up Turbo SC all okay. NOS no good.) Anything from a tuner company or something that'll be able to be crowned the FASTEST M3? I would like to see just how much stuff that engine can take.
Last edited by GlobeCLK; 08-11-01 at 01:11 AM.
08-11-01, 01:13 AM
#13
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Originally posted by AC Schnitzer
thanks for the welcome.
A new 2001 M3 is $48,500.00
thanks for the welcome.
A new 2001 M3 is $48,500.00
So don't give me that M3 is just 10k over the IS300, that shows you know nothing about the car.
M3 right now is way over priced.
08-11-01, 01:44 AM
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Re: Don't start the mod bull****
Originally posted by The Truth
Fact remains, the M3 is the better performer. Comparing the IS300 to any M3 is an utter fallacy. And please, do not waste your time talking of IS300s with SCs, because for less money the previous E36 M3 can be had with an AA Turbo. Think an SC'd IS300 can keep up with that? Not a chance in hell. The fact remains that any car can be made faster than any other car with any given amount of money, and if speed is all you're after, then the best bang for the buck is a newer turbo Audi with a simple, single mod: a chip (although, a BOV/DV is needed as well, depending on the model and engine).
All I've owned for the past nine years has been Japanese cars in one iteration or another. I still own one:
They may all have been decently fast, especially the turbo models I've owned (Supra and VR-4), but not one of them had the feel of my E36 M3, and neither does the IS300. Not to mention that if you somehow make an IS300 truly powerful, you still must do something about its road wallow, although I am sure that a decent set of coilovers would do wonders.
Stop comparing the IS300 to the M3. E30/E36/E46, whatever. There is no comparison.
Fact remains, the M3 is the better performer. Comparing the IS300 to any M3 is an utter fallacy. And please, do not waste your time talking of IS300s with SCs, because for less money the previous E36 M3 can be had with an AA Turbo. Think an SC'd IS300 can keep up with that? Not a chance in hell. The fact remains that any car can be made faster than any other car with any given amount of money, and if speed is all you're after, then the best bang for the buck is a newer turbo Audi with a simple, single mod: a chip (although, a BOV/DV is needed as well, depending on the model and engine).
All I've owned for the past nine years has been Japanese cars in one iteration or another. I still own one:
They may all have been decently fast, especially the turbo models I've owned (Supra and VR-4), but not one of them had the feel of my E36 M3, and neither does the IS300. Not to mention that if you somehow make an IS300 truly powerful, you still must do something about its road wallow, although I am sure that a decent set of coilovers would do wonders.
Stop comparing the IS300 to the M3. E30/E36/E46, whatever. There is no comparison.
HKS IS300 runs in 3's what bmw runs in 3's?:
