E90 3 Series vs IS 250/350!! Battle for the throne! (56k no)
Euro specs vs US specs
03-11-05, 08:46 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by TED_FR
Why the 2006 IS250 would have Euro specs and Us specs? The current IS 300 has got the same power on both sides of the ocean : 213 DIN / 215 SAE.
03-13-05, 02:26 AM
#48
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Sales in Germany
In January 2005, in Germany, BMW homeland, the sales figure were 'slightly' better for the local team:
January 2005 : 4759 BMW 3 (sales dropped because of the 2006 model annoucement, should be normally around 8000)
January 2005 : 49 Lexus IS200 & 300 (yes Four Nine)
That is about 1/100, there is room for improvement, and the diesel engine will definitely help.
January 2005 : 4759 BMW 3 (sales dropped because of the 2006 model annoucement, should be normally around 8000)
January 2005 : 49 Lexus IS200 & 300 (yes Four Nine)
That is about 1/100, there is room for improvement, and the diesel engine will definitely help.
03-13-05, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TED_FR
In January 2005, in Germany, BMW homeland, the sales figure were 'slightly' better for the local team:
January 2005 : 4759 BMW 3 (sales dropped because of the 2006 model annoucement, should be normally around 8000)
January 2005 : 49 Lexus IS200 & 300 (yes Four Nine)
That is about 1/100, there is room for improvement, and the diesel engine will definitely help.
January 2005 : 4759 BMW 3 (sales dropped because of the 2006 model annoucement, should be normally around 8000)
January 2005 : 49 Lexus IS200 & 300 (yes Four Nine)
That is about 1/100, there is room for improvement, and the diesel engine will definitely help.
I think the Avensis will get the bigest boost due the 2.2D engine availability.
03-13-05, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Americans are power hungry and greedy. That is the mentality out here which is why we got the IS300 2JZ-GE before anyone else for the 2001 model year. Other markets got the 2.0L I-6 1G-FE (IS200), 2.2L 4cyl 3S-GE (Altezza) and etc, then later added the 2JZ to the line up.
*raise my hand*
Greedy American right here!
03-13-05, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
The numbers don't look quite so lob sided if you eliminated all the cars below the 320 and all the non sedan variants - the market in which the IS competes.
I think the Avensis will get the bigest boost due the 2.2D engine availability.
I think the Avensis will get the bigest boost due the 2.2D engine availability.
03-13-05, 11:46 PM
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Another thing that will skew the numbers is that with the E90 you won't have any cars under the 320. I'd venture to guess that a good size percentage of cars sold currently in Germany (and elsewhere outside NA) are due to the 316 and 318 models which won't be sold anymore - replaced by the 1 series.
October sould be the first full month when both new models will go head to head - it will be an interesting tally.
October sould be the first full month when both new models will go head to head - it will be an interesting tally.
03-14-05, 05:26 AM
#53
Originally Posted by biker
Another thing that will skew the numbers is that with the E90 you won't have any cars under the 320. I'd venture to guess that a good size percentage of cars sold currently in Germany (and elsewhere outside NA) are due to the 316 and 318 models which won't be sold anymore - replaced by the 1 series.
October sould be the first full month when both new models will go head to head - it will be an interesting tally.
October sould be the first full month when both new models will go head to head - it will be an interesting tally.
Avensis is doing wonderfully good in Germany, although I doubt new 2.2d4d's will help a lot, maybe up to 20% of sales because it will be more expensive than 2.0d4d engine Maybe 150hp 2.2d4d will be even better for Avensis when it comes in July.
All European markets favour their own brands, and local sales are in huge favour of local brands - German like german brands, French like French brands, Italian italians, etc, etc, but Toyota is doing well in all that mess and should sell 1,000,000 cars this year... For example, Avensis sells better than 407, Mazda6, even Opel Vectra in Germany...
03-15-05, 12:45 PM
#54
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I just got my CAR and EVO and they seem to be drooling over the 330 and even the diesal entry level model. One of them did say, the 330 is getting to perfect, where there is even less driver feedback etc but overall they love it.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
03-15-05, 04:34 PM
#55
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I just got my CAR and EVO and they seem to be drooling over the 330 and even the diesal entry level model. One of them did say, the 330 is getting to perfect, where there is even less driver feedback etc but overall they love it.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
I don't believe any of those car mags, I tend to wonder if they are being honest in there reviews. I mean look at the interior of the new BMW 3, I guess if you never saw the previous model then you would think it looks ok but to me it's just flat & boring looking, one hump for Non-Nav and 2 humps for Nav-Customers. Everything looks so generic, nothing like the E46 where there are sexy curves to the dash & the center console is slightly tilted to the driver, not like that in the E90.
I think the new IS interior is sportier looking & from the pics appears to be more driver oriented, I hope the handling is as good as the interior looks.
03-16-05, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I just got my CAR and EVO and they seem to be drooling over the 330 and even the diesal entry level model. One of them did say, the 330 is getting to perfect, where there is even less driver feedback etc but overall they love it.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
And Motor Trend etc, the 3 is on covers and being hailed as well. Its going to be tough fighting the favorite.
For an example: The Volvo S60 2,5T AWD was described as an good but pretty boring car in most magazines. When the greatest carmagazine in germany , "Auto Motor und Sport", compared it with the "superb and sporty" BMW 325 xi , the Volvo S60 won.
Exactly the same happened when they and other magazines compared the RX 300 with BMW X5 and X3.Lexus RX 300 won over X3 and got the same grade as X5. The new Audi A6 won over the BMW 5 series in most magazines.
Of course there are pro-BMW magazines out there,especially in europe.But they are mostly not german. I think its very easy to judge if the magazine you read is serious or not. Sentences like " the 330 is getting to perfect" belongs to a BMW salesman.
Last edited by Mr Bond; 03-16-05 at 02:12 PM.
03-16-05, 11:03 AM
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Well, I got to test drive one of the cars in this thread today.
It was a silver 325 with black interior with 6MT and NAV. It had a great combination of cloth seat inserts with letherette. It had the sports package but the seats had all manual adjustments. Say what you will about the car but those are great seats - too bad they'll never make them available in NA. As the press pictures show the interior of the car is "sterile". There's nothing besides climate control in the center stack. I don't have much to compare it to - I was indiferent about it - I mainly worried about how it drove.
Comfort access is not yet available so the car had a fob which you click into a slot in the dash. Push the clutch in and press the START button and the muted 2.5L I6 comes to life.
While the 6MT shifts effortlessly the take off was very disturbing to me. The combination of CDV (clutch delay valve) and drive by wire is not something I'm used to and don't like it. Once you get going it's not an issue. The steering and handling is superb. Accelaration is good - I didn't have a chance to wind it out, the car only had 140km on the odo. 140kph on the highway is a nice comfortable effortless ride.
Like the G35 has been bashed about its interior I think that might be the 3 series only issue with some folks. Cause when it comes to the driving dynamics - it doesn't get much better.
The back seat is big enough to seat 3 kids comfortably. This Euro version has no cupholder save the one INSIDE the compartment between driver/pass. Electrical power junkies will love this car - outlets are all over the place. The much maligned Idrive is much better than in the E60 5 series I drove two years ago - but some dedicated buttons for some functions would help.
It was a short test ride - I'll have to take it out for a longer drive to get some more details.
It was a silver 325 with black interior with 6MT and NAV. It had a great combination of cloth seat inserts with letherette. It had the sports package but the seats had all manual adjustments. Say what you will about the car but those are great seats - too bad they'll never make them available in NA. As the press pictures show the interior of the car is "sterile". There's nothing besides climate control in the center stack. I don't have much to compare it to - I was indiferent about it - I mainly worried about how it drove.
Comfort access is not yet available so the car had a fob which you click into a slot in the dash. Push the clutch in and press the START button and the muted 2.5L I6 comes to life.
While the 6MT shifts effortlessly the take off was very disturbing to me. The combination of CDV (clutch delay valve) and drive by wire is not something I'm used to and don't like it. Once you get going it's not an issue. The steering and handling is superb. Accelaration is good - I didn't have a chance to wind it out, the car only had 140km on the odo. 140kph on the highway is a nice comfortable effortless ride.
Like the G35 has been bashed about its interior I think that might be the 3 series only issue with some folks. Cause when it comes to the driving dynamics - it doesn't get much better.
The back seat is big enough to seat 3 kids comfortably. This Euro version has no cupholder save the one INSIDE the compartment between driver/pass. Electrical power junkies will love this car - outlets are all over the place. The much maligned Idrive is much better than in the E60 5 series I drove two years ago - but some dedicated buttons for some functions would help.
It was a short test ride - I'll have to take it out for a longer drive to get some more details.
03-18-05, 11:52 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by Mr Bond
Its always like that when a new "important" car debutes here in europe.But later on,when they do a comparison test,the verdict changes.
For an example: The Volvo S60 2,5T AWD was described as an good but pretty boring car in most magazines. When the greatest carmagazine in germany , "Auto Motor und Sport", compared it with the "superb and sporty" BMW 325 xi , the Volvo S60 won.
Exactly the same happened when they and other magazines compared the RX 300 with BMW X5 and X3.Lexus RX 300 won over X3 and got the same grade as X5. The new Audi A6 won over the BMW 5 series in most magazines.
Of course there are pro-BMW magazines out there,especially in europe.But they are mostly not german. I think its very easy to judge if the magazine you read is serious or not. Sentences like " the 330 is getting to perfect" belongs to a BMW salesman.
For an example: The Volvo S60 2,5T AWD was described as an good but pretty boring car in most magazines. When the greatest carmagazine in germany , "Auto Motor und Sport", compared it with the "superb and sporty" BMW 325 xi , the Volvo S60 won.
Exactly the same happened when they and other magazines compared the RX 300 with BMW X5 and X3.Lexus RX 300 won over X3 and got the same grade as X5. The new Audi A6 won over the BMW 5 series in most magazines.
Of course there are pro-BMW magazines out there,especially in europe.But they are mostly not german. I think its very easy to judge if the magazine you read is serious or not. Sentences like " the 330 is getting to perfect" belongs to a BMW salesman.
03-18-05, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tron1043
This is going to my last post, in my very brief membership at club Lexus.
Since August I have been waiting for the 2006 3 series, however recently while my mother was at the dealership checking out an 06 GS300, I got to playing around with the NAV system... simply put the best system available. So good, I started thinking that I might be interested in the 06 IS250/350 based on how much I loved the gadgets in the GS.
A month ago I did a very intensive demo in a BMW with iDrive Nav spec. It was painful to use the navigation system, not to mention it didn't seem that it offered any POI data. Since NAV is so important for next car, I started considering Lexus more and more... again.
I say Lexus again, because I had an IS300 the third week it was available and before that my first car was my father's SC300 (which by the way was the best car anyone in my family has ever owned). The IS was a very fun car, but it was not a $35K car. The interior was miles away from Lexus (the trim covering the transmission tunnel flexing like a Ford Focus comes to mind), no LED ambient lighting, no "exotic" trim pieces (wood, carbon fiber, aluminum), no steering wheel audio controls, you probaly know what I am talking about. Having had my fill of my IS300, I got a BMW 3 series, and it is simply sublime, from the comfort to the plethora of accessories available, my favorite car.
fast forward to last week the specs/quality info and pics of the IS come out, it was looking like I would be going to the dealership to literally have the first IS in Michigan.
Then, after getting some words of encouragement from BMW boards to try the iDrive navigation again, BUT WITH A LIST OF THE VOICE COMMANDS, I went today.
In a nut-shell, the voice command is so 'all-encompassing'... it's like techno-shock.
How would you like to adjust, the actual 'fan speed', temp in deg.s,, select a specific CD track, a radio station frequency i.e. say "FM 8 8 . 7", scale the map by saying "scale 1 mile", "scale 400 feet", etc... Even my Father, who has a moderate Irish accent had no problem with the system recognizing all of his commands as well.
Everything I hated about iDrive was evaporated after hald an hour playing around with the voice commands.
So, I have thought about the merits of each cars and here is what I think.
Exterior: I like them both =, however BMW's Sparkling Graphite Metallic is just all types of sexy.
Interior:
BMW: The E90 3-series, is disappointing, however the feel of the materials (also bear in mind that the plastics used in the new 3 are actually a step up from the current 5 [which is also getting some upgraded plastics]), the ablility to switch the trim with tons of OEM variants, aluminium, carbon fiber (black and silver), woods, etc..., and the best looking steering (IMO) in just about any car, etc.., should make up for it.
Lexus: Looks great at first... take a look at the doors. The door pulls, seem completely out of place and give the door a disjointed look. The lower middle cushion of the seats protrude in an awkward way, that could easily be made adjustable 'ala' BMW thigh support feature on their sport seats. The dials for the seat heater/ventialtion controls are completely out of place and seem like an after thought. Also, isn't it about time that Lexus ditches the staggered tranmission gate for a leather gaiter like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc..., it looks so dated, especially with all the high technology in the car.
On the positive side, I love the screen placement.
Engine:
BMW: simply power is up alot, engine weight down, fuel efficiency up, nice. However, something that only people in cold climates will appreciate, the new BMW inline 6s use an electric water pump, which besides freeing up more HP, makes the car warm up faster in cold starts and allow for 'REST' heating (using residual engine heat to heat the interior without the motor running). To anyone in a cold climate this is a big deal.
Lexus: Fool me once shame on you (215 HP 7.3 0-60 in $35K car), fool me twice shame on me (204 hp + AWD [in my case], weight up on the whole, plus I am sure the weight used in the tech specs, are with the 16" wheels, no ventilated seat fans, heavier Levison speakers & amp, plus a spare tire ---- BMW is using the brand new Pirelli Euforia run-flats, thus no spare.
The IS250 will be no faster than an Audi A4 2.0 quatro (new engine for 06), in fact the IS250 will most likely be sluggish with AWD and all the toys.
Toys: This is easy, Lexus in a landside. However, unless your an audio snob (which I was, but thankfully I have shaken that vice), the BMW Logic 7 system is very, very good, no Levinson, but very good. Also, big for me, BMW is Sirius and their antena is built in, meaning you would never know the antena is there by looking at the car.
PRICE:
BMW: I can get the BMW I want, probaly for under $38K w/ 6 speed auto, leather, cold weather pkg (3 zone - 3 stage heated seats, fold down rear seats, and head light washers), Logic 7, Navigation w/iDrive, Sport package (sport seats, sport susp., the sexiest steering wheel in any non-exotic, 17" wheels), Sirius, adaptive Xenons with Angel eyes, and metaillic paint. Also, sunroof, real aluminum or wood trim, LED variable intensity brake lights, are now standard.
Also, BMW mark-up is nowhere near Lexus, 2005 invoive on 325i $26,825, msrp $29,300, plus dealers make next to nothing on options/pkgs. Since, niether a new IS or 3 series will be discounted anytime soon, there is just something more appealing of giving less money to the dealer, kind of like your getting more car for the money even if its more expensive.
Lexus: What's the base on a 2006 GS300? $42,900 very well equiped. What's cheapest you see them at dealers for? $49,999. You can't seem to get a base spec Lexus. Let's say that the base for the IS250 is $28,500. With moonroof, auto, heated/ventilated seats, adaptive xenons, the NAV/Levinson pkg (which will be EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE as it is the GS, as has been the case of nav/levinson prices across Lexus range) and it would not be any stretch to say the cars hitting the showrooms in the fall will be $34K low spec and $36.5 full spec, add $1900 for AWD.
I am ordering a 2006 BMW 325i.
Without meaning to offend anyone, the IS250 (until it gets the 245hp GS300 in two model years you can set your watch by it) is set to be the black sheep of the Lexus family, however, it not surprise me if the IS350 wins a few comparison test v. the new 330i. Keep in mind though, I think like 80% of 3 series are of 325 variety.
I really enjoyed this forum,
James
Since August I have been waiting for the 2006 3 series, however recently while my mother was at the dealership checking out an 06 GS300, I got to playing around with the NAV system... simply put the best system available. So good, I started thinking that I might be interested in the 06 IS250/350 based on how much I loved the gadgets in the GS.
A month ago I did a very intensive demo in a BMW with iDrive Nav spec. It was painful to use the navigation system, not to mention it didn't seem that it offered any POI data. Since NAV is so important for next car, I started considering Lexus more and more... again.
I say Lexus again, because I had an IS300 the third week it was available and before that my first car was my father's SC300 (which by the way was the best car anyone in my family has ever owned). The IS was a very fun car, but it was not a $35K car. The interior was miles away from Lexus (the trim covering the transmission tunnel flexing like a Ford Focus comes to mind), no LED ambient lighting, no "exotic" trim pieces (wood, carbon fiber, aluminum), no steering wheel audio controls, you probaly know what I am talking about. Having had my fill of my IS300, I got a BMW 3 series, and it is simply sublime, from the comfort to the plethora of accessories available, my favorite car.
fast forward to last week the specs/quality info and pics of the IS come out, it was looking like I would be going to the dealership to literally have the first IS in Michigan.
Then, after getting some words of encouragement from BMW boards to try the iDrive navigation again, BUT WITH A LIST OF THE VOICE COMMANDS, I went today.
In a nut-shell, the voice command is so 'all-encompassing'... it's like techno-shock.
How would you like to adjust, the actual 'fan speed', temp in deg.s,, select a specific CD track, a radio station frequency i.e. say "FM 8 8 . 7", scale the map by saying "scale 1 mile", "scale 400 feet", etc... Even my Father, who has a moderate Irish accent had no problem with the system recognizing all of his commands as well.
Everything I hated about iDrive was evaporated after hald an hour playing around with the voice commands.
So, I have thought about the merits of each cars and here is what I think.
Exterior: I like them both =, however BMW's Sparkling Graphite Metallic is just all types of sexy.
Interior:
BMW: The E90 3-series, is disappointing, however the feel of the materials (also bear in mind that the plastics used in the new 3 are actually a step up from the current 5 [which is also getting some upgraded plastics]), the ablility to switch the trim with tons of OEM variants, aluminium, carbon fiber (black and silver), woods, etc..., and the best looking steering (IMO) in just about any car, etc.., should make up for it.
Lexus: Looks great at first... take a look at the doors. The door pulls, seem completely out of place and give the door a disjointed look. The lower middle cushion of the seats protrude in an awkward way, that could easily be made adjustable 'ala' BMW thigh support feature on their sport seats. The dials for the seat heater/ventialtion controls are completely out of place and seem like an after thought. Also, isn't it about time that Lexus ditches the staggered tranmission gate for a leather gaiter like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc..., it looks so dated, especially with all the high technology in the car.
On the positive side, I love the screen placement.
Engine:
BMW: simply power is up alot, engine weight down, fuel efficiency up, nice. However, something that only people in cold climates will appreciate, the new BMW inline 6s use an electric water pump, which besides freeing up more HP, makes the car warm up faster in cold starts and allow for 'REST' heating (using residual engine heat to heat the interior without the motor running). To anyone in a cold climate this is a big deal.
Lexus: Fool me once shame on you (215 HP 7.3 0-60 in $35K car), fool me twice shame on me (204 hp + AWD [in my case], weight up on the whole, plus I am sure the weight used in the tech specs, are with the 16" wheels, no ventilated seat fans, heavier Levison speakers & amp, plus a spare tire ---- BMW is using the brand new Pirelli Euforia run-flats, thus no spare.
The IS250 will be no faster than an Audi A4 2.0 quatro (new engine for 06), in fact the IS250 will most likely be sluggish with AWD and all the toys.
Toys: This is easy, Lexus in a landside. However, unless your an audio snob (which I was, but thankfully I have shaken that vice), the BMW Logic 7 system is very, very good, no Levinson, but very good. Also, big for me, BMW is Sirius and their antena is built in, meaning you would never know the antena is there by looking at the car.
PRICE:
BMW: I can get the BMW I want, probaly for under $38K w/ 6 speed auto, leather, cold weather pkg (3 zone - 3 stage heated seats, fold down rear seats, and head light washers), Logic 7, Navigation w/iDrive, Sport package (sport seats, sport susp., the sexiest steering wheel in any non-exotic, 17" wheels), Sirius, adaptive Xenons with Angel eyes, and metaillic paint. Also, sunroof, real aluminum or wood trim, LED variable intensity brake lights, are now standard.
Also, BMW mark-up is nowhere near Lexus, 2005 invoive on 325i $26,825, msrp $29,300, plus dealers make next to nothing on options/pkgs. Since, niether a new IS or 3 series will be discounted anytime soon, there is just something more appealing of giving less money to the dealer, kind of like your getting more car for the money even if its more expensive.
Lexus: What's the base on a 2006 GS300? $42,900 very well equiped. What's cheapest you see them at dealers for? $49,999. You can't seem to get a base spec Lexus. Let's say that the base for the IS250 is $28,500. With moonroof, auto, heated/ventilated seats, adaptive xenons, the NAV/Levinson pkg (which will be EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE as it is the GS, as has been the case of nav/levinson prices across Lexus range) and it would not be any stretch to say the cars hitting the showrooms in the fall will be $34K low spec and $36.5 full spec, add $1900 for AWD.
I am ordering a 2006 BMW 325i.
Without meaning to offend anyone, the IS250 (until it gets the 245hp GS300 in two model years you can set your watch by it) is set to be the black sheep of the Lexus family, however, it not surprise me if the IS350 wins a few comparison test v. the new 330i. Keep in mind though, I think like 80% of 3 series are of 325 variety.
I really enjoyed this forum,
James
AAAHHHEEMM, or you could buy the G35 sedan RWD or the AWD with either a 5-sp auto ( It has a 1st gear shift) or the 6-spd manual. With 280 HP for the sedan lots of fun and torque (270lb/ft.) and brakes that will stop you on a dime....literally.
Oh yeah, I owned the 2001 IS 300, and let me tell you the differnce in perfomance and comfort between the sedans are night and day. After test driving both the G35 Sedan and coupe, I ended up buying the COUPE
!!! Love the vehicle it is everything I had wanted in a car, and yes I have the Perfomance & Aero package, less the DVD Navigation.I have looked at the photos of the NEW second gen IS and I have to say the exerior and interior shots closely resembles the BMW 3 series. But Lexus is still putting out an underpowered vehicle.
My sights are set on purchasing the NEW Chrysler 300C SRT-8, talk about bang for the buck. 6.1 L V-8 (420 HP / 425 Torque)and an est. 0-60 4.9 secs from a 4,000 LB. car....oh how sweet it is
With C&D already calling it the American version of the AMG MB E55 ( go figure) this is aready a hot seller, almost all the 2 allocated vehicles/dealership are sold and as Iam writing this I know of 6 people who have taken delivery on this vehicle and thus far it is living up to it's reputation. Fully loaded 46K. Hate to say it but the new GS 430 can't even compete ,performance or price wise.I use to be a huge lexus fan, but there falling off the mark. They still build a very reliable and a comfotable car ( and charge you handsomely for it ), but they have been resting on their laurels and need to step up. Remember the slogan for the GS400, "Something wicked this way comes", that was then this is now ( Chrysler 300C SRT-8),
03-18-05, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tron1043
This is going to my last post, in my very brief membership at club Lexus.
Since August I have been waiting for the 2006 3 series, however recently while my mother was at the dealership checking out an 06 GS300, I got to playing around with the NAV system... simply put the best system available. So good, I started thinking that I might be interested in the 06 IS250/350 based on how much I loved the gadgets in the GS.
A month ago I did a very intensive demo in a BMW with iDrive Nav spec. It was painful to use the navigation system, not to mention it didn't seem that it offered any POI data. Since NAV is so important for next car, I started considering Lexus more and more... again.
I say Lexus again, because I had an IS300 the third week it was available and before that my first car was my father's SC300 (which by the way was the best car anyone in my family has ever owned). The IS was a very fun car, but it was not a $35K car. The interior was miles away from Lexus (the trim covering the transmission tunnel flexing like a Ford Focus comes to mind), no LED ambient lighting, no "exotic" trim pieces (wood, carbon fiber, aluminum), no steering wheel audio controls, you probaly know what I am talking about. Having had my fill of my IS300, I got a BMW 3 series, and it is simply sublime, from the comfort to the plethora of accessories available, my favorite car.
fast forward to last week the specs/quality info and pics of the IS come out, it was looking like I would be going to the dealership to literally have the first IS in Michigan.
Then, after getting some words of encouragement from BMW boards to try the iDrive navigation again, BUT WITH A LIST OF THE VOICE COMMANDS, I went today.
In a nut-shell, the voice command is so 'all-encompassing'... it's like techno-shock.
How would you like to adjust, the actual 'fan speed', temp in deg.s,, select a specific CD track, a radio station frequency i.e. say "FM 8 8 . 7", scale the map by saying "scale 1 mile", "scale 400 feet", etc... Even my Father, who has a moderate Irish accent had no problem with the system recognizing all of his commands as well.
Everything I hated about iDrive was evaporated after hald an hour playing around with the voice commands.
So, I have thought about the merits of each cars and here is what I think.
Exterior: I like them both =, however BMW's Sparkling Graphite Metallic is just all types of sexy.
Interior:
BMW: The E90 3-series, is disappointing, however the feel of the materials (also bear in mind that the plastics used in the new 3 are actually a step up from the current 5 [which is also getting some upgraded plastics]), the ablility to switch the trim with tons of OEM variants, aluminium, carbon fiber (black and silver), woods, etc..., and the best looking steering (IMO) in just about any car, etc.., should make up for it.
Lexus: Looks great at first... take a look at the doors. The door pulls, seem completely out of place and give the door a disjointed look. The lower middle cushion of the seats protrude in an awkward way, that could easily be made adjustable 'ala' BMW thigh support feature on their sport seats. The dials for the seat heater/ventialtion controls are completely out of place and seem like an after thought. Also, isn't it about time that Lexus ditches the staggered tranmission gate for a leather gaiter like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc..., it looks so dated, especially with all the high technology in the car.
On the positive side, I love the screen placement.
Engine:
BMW: simply power is up alot, engine weight down, fuel efficiency up, nice. However, something that only people in cold climates will appreciate, the new BMW inline 6s use an electric water pump, which besides freeing up more HP, makes the car warm up faster in cold starts and allow for 'REST' heating (using residual engine heat to heat the interior without the motor running). To anyone in a cold climate this is a big deal.
Lexus: Fool me once shame on you (215 HP 7.3 0-60 in $35K car), fool me twice shame on me (204 hp + AWD [in my case], weight up on the whole, plus I am sure the weight used in the tech specs, are with the 16" wheels, no ventilated seat fans, heavier Levison speakers & amp, plus a spare tire ---- BMW is using the brand new Pirelli Euforia run-flats, thus no spare.
The IS250 will be no faster than an Audi A4 2.0 quatro (new engine for 06), in fact the IS250 will most likely be sluggish with AWD and all the toys.
Toys: This is easy, Lexus in a landside. However, unless your an audio snob (which I was, but thankfully I have shaken that vice), the BMW Logic 7 system is very, very good, no Levinson, but very good. Also, big for me, BMW is Sirius and their antena is built in, meaning you would never know the antena is there by looking at the car.
PRICE:
BMW: I can get the BMW I want, probaly for under $38K w/ 6 speed auto, leather, cold weather pkg (3 zone - 3 stage heated seats, fold down rear seats, and head light washers), Logic 7, Navigation w/iDrive, Sport package (sport seats, sport susp., the sexiest steering wheel in any non-exotic, 17" wheels), Sirius, adaptive Xenons with Angel eyes, and metaillic paint. Also, sunroof, real aluminum or wood trim, LED variable intensity brake lights, are now standard.
Also, BMW mark-up is nowhere near Lexus, 2005 invoive on 325i $26,825, msrp $29,300, plus dealers make next to nothing on options/pkgs. Since, niether a new IS or 3 series will be discounted anytime soon, there is just something more appealing of giving less money to the dealer, kind of like your getting more car for the money even if its more expensive.
Lexus: What's the base on a 2006 GS300? $42,900 very well equiped. What's cheapest you see them at dealers for? $49,999. You can't seem to get a base spec Lexus. Let's say that the base for the IS250 is $28,500. With moonroof, auto, heated/ventilated seats, adaptive xenons, the NAV/Levinson pkg (which will be EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE as it is the GS, as has been the case of nav/levinson prices across Lexus range) and it would not be any stretch to say the cars hitting the showrooms in the fall will be $34K low spec and $36.5 full spec, add $1900 for AWD.
I am ordering a 2006 BMW 325i.
Without meaning to offend anyone, the IS250 (until it gets the 245hp GS300 in two model years you can set your watch by it) is set to be the black sheep of the Lexus family, however, it not surprise me if the IS350 wins a few comparison test v. the new 330i. Keep in mind though, I think like 80% of 3 series are of 325 variety.
I really enjoyed this forum,
James
Since August I have been waiting for the 2006 3 series, however recently while my mother was at the dealership checking out an 06 GS300, I got to playing around with the NAV system... simply put the best system available. So good, I started thinking that I might be interested in the 06 IS250/350 based on how much I loved the gadgets in the GS.
A month ago I did a very intensive demo in a BMW with iDrive Nav spec. It was painful to use the navigation system, not to mention it didn't seem that it offered any POI data. Since NAV is so important for next car, I started considering Lexus more and more... again.
I say Lexus again, because I had an IS300 the third week it was available and before that my first car was my father's SC300 (which by the way was the best car anyone in my family has ever owned). The IS was a very fun car, but it was not a $35K car. The interior was miles away from Lexus (the trim covering the transmission tunnel flexing like a Ford Focus comes to mind), no LED ambient lighting, no "exotic" trim pieces (wood, carbon fiber, aluminum), no steering wheel audio controls, you probaly know what I am talking about. Having had my fill of my IS300, I got a BMW 3 series, and it is simply sublime, from the comfort to the plethora of accessories available, my favorite car.
fast forward to last week the specs/quality info and pics of the IS come out, it was looking like I would be going to the dealership to literally have the first IS in Michigan.
Then, after getting some words of encouragement from BMW boards to try the iDrive navigation again, BUT WITH A LIST OF THE VOICE COMMANDS, I went today.
In a nut-shell, the voice command is so 'all-encompassing'... it's like techno-shock.
How would you like to adjust, the actual 'fan speed', temp in deg.s,, select a specific CD track, a radio station frequency i.e. say "FM 8 8 . 7", scale the map by saying "scale 1 mile", "scale 400 feet", etc... Even my Father, who has a moderate Irish accent had no problem with the system recognizing all of his commands as well.
Everything I hated about iDrive was evaporated after hald an hour playing around with the voice commands.
So, I have thought about the merits of each cars and here is what I think.
Exterior: I like them both =, however BMW's Sparkling Graphite Metallic is just all types of sexy.
Interior:
BMW: The E90 3-series, is disappointing, however the feel of the materials (also bear in mind that the plastics used in the new 3 are actually a step up from the current 5 [which is also getting some upgraded plastics]), the ablility to switch the trim with tons of OEM variants, aluminium, carbon fiber (black and silver), woods, etc..., and the best looking steering (IMO) in just about any car, etc.., should make up for it.
Lexus: Looks great at first... take a look at the doors. The door pulls, seem completely out of place and give the door a disjointed look. The lower middle cushion of the seats protrude in an awkward way, that could easily be made adjustable 'ala' BMW thigh support feature on their sport seats. The dials for the seat heater/ventialtion controls are completely out of place and seem like an after thought. Also, isn't it about time that Lexus ditches the staggered tranmission gate for a leather gaiter like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc..., it looks so dated, especially with all the high technology in the car.
On the positive side, I love the screen placement.
Engine:
BMW: simply power is up alot, engine weight down, fuel efficiency up, nice. However, something that only people in cold climates will appreciate, the new BMW inline 6s use an electric water pump, which besides freeing up more HP, makes the car warm up faster in cold starts and allow for 'REST' heating (using residual engine heat to heat the interior without the motor running). To anyone in a cold climate this is a big deal.
Lexus: Fool me once shame on you (215 HP 7.3 0-60 in $35K car), fool me twice shame on me (204 hp + AWD [in my case], weight up on the whole, plus I am sure the weight used in the tech specs, are with the 16" wheels, no ventilated seat fans, heavier Levison speakers & amp, plus a spare tire ---- BMW is using the brand new Pirelli Euforia run-flats, thus no spare.
The IS250 will be no faster than an Audi A4 2.0 quatro (new engine for 06), in fact the IS250 will most likely be sluggish with AWD and all the toys.
Toys: This is easy, Lexus in a landside. However, unless your an audio snob (which I was, but thankfully I have shaken that vice), the BMW Logic 7 system is very, very good, no Levinson, but very good. Also, big for me, BMW is Sirius and their antena is built in, meaning you would never know the antena is there by looking at the car.
PRICE:
BMW: I can get the BMW I want, probaly for under $38K w/ 6 speed auto, leather, cold weather pkg (3 zone - 3 stage heated seats, fold down rear seats, and head light washers), Logic 7, Navigation w/iDrive, Sport package (sport seats, sport susp., the sexiest steering wheel in any non-exotic, 17" wheels), Sirius, adaptive Xenons with Angel eyes, and metaillic paint. Also, sunroof, real aluminum or wood trim, LED variable intensity brake lights, are now standard.
Also, BMW mark-up is nowhere near Lexus, 2005 invoive on 325i $26,825, msrp $29,300, plus dealers make next to nothing on options/pkgs. Since, niether a new IS or 3 series will be discounted anytime soon, there is just something more appealing of giving less money to the dealer, kind of like your getting more car for the money even if its more expensive.
Lexus: What's the base on a 2006 GS300? $42,900 very well equiped. What's cheapest you see them at dealers for? $49,999. You can't seem to get a base spec Lexus. Let's say that the base for the IS250 is $28,500. With moonroof, auto, heated/ventilated seats, adaptive xenons, the NAV/Levinson pkg (which will be EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE as it is the GS, as has been the case of nav/levinson prices across Lexus range) and it would not be any stretch to say the cars hitting the showrooms in the fall will be $34K low spec and $36.5 full spec, add $1900 for AWD.
I am ordering a 2006 BMW 325i.
Without meaning to offend anyone, the IS250 (until it gets the 245hp GS300 in two model years you can set your watch by it) is set to be the black sheep of the Lexus family, however, it not surprise me if the IS350 wins a few comparison test v. the new 330i. Keep in mind though, I think like 80% of 3 series are of 325 variety.
I really enjoyed this forum,
James
AAAHHHEEMM, or you could buy the G35 sedan RWD or the AWD with either a 5-sp auto ( It has a 1st gear shift) or the 6-spd manual. With 280 HP for the sedan lots of fun and torque (270lb/ft.) and brakes that will stop you on a dime....literally.
Oh yeah, I owned the 2001 IS 300, and let me tell you the difference in perfomance and comfort between the sedans are night and day. After test driving both the G35 Sedan and coupe, I ended up buying the COUPE
!!! Love the vehicle it is everything I had wanted in a car, and yes I have the Perfomance/Premium /Aero package, less the DVD Navigation.I have looked at the photos of the NEW second gen IS and I have to say the exerior and interior shots closely resembles the BMW 3 series. But Lexus is still putting out an underpowered vehicle.
My sights are set on purchasing the NEW Chrysler 300C SRT-8, talk about bang for the buck. 6.1 L V-8 (420 HP / 425 Torque)and an est. 0-60 4.9 secs from a 4,000 LB. car....oh how sweet it is
With C&D already calling it the American version of the AMG MB E55 ( go figure) this is aready a hot seller, almost all the 2 allocated vehicles/dealership are sold and as Iam writing this I know of 6 people who have taken delivery on this vehicle and thus far it is living up to it's reputation. Fully loaded 46K. Hate to say it but the new GS 430 can't even compete ,performance or price wise.I use to be a huge lexus fan, but there falling off the mark. They still build a very reliable and a comfotable car ( and charge you handsomely for it ), but they have been resting on their laurels and need to step up. Remember the slogan for the GS400, "Something wicked this way comes", that was then this is now ( Chrysler 300C SRT-8),