UDel

To answer the original question the IS250 would compete with TSX, 4 cyl A4, 325i, maybe RX-8 if IS250 has 215-220hp and base price is slightly under 30,000. That would be the only reason to bring a small modest power v-6 to the market. IS300 and 350(if they use the engine) would compete with TL, 330i, 6 cyl A4, G35, CTS, X-type. The G35 is a pretty big heavy car so Nissan did not choose to put a smaller engine for America. Its main competition when released was the TL and 3 series although the 3 series costs much more and the G35 is closer in size to a 5 series. The main reason the G35 had to be made to cost around 30 grand was that Infiniti was not a brand that could command high prices and the car needed to be seen as a bargain to cause buzz and lure customers from the TL and 3 series. The interior of the G35 is not as nice as the new IS and lexus does have better material and resale value although the G35 coupe was named best to retain value. All Japanese brands are sharing engines chasis with less expensive cars which can be good in that they can be sold at lower prices with proven designs and powerplants but bad in that they end up too similiar to lesser cars, still command high prices, not be as specialized for performance or luxury as designing new engines or chasis and gives BMW, Mercedes, and Posrche somewhat more desirability because many of their cars have specialized engines and chasis for different model's and don't share with lesser brands.
Pricing is still not for certain but I doubt the IS300 will come too close to 40 grand considering most of the competition can be had for much less, it would be close to GS300 prices, and they are a little short on horsepower again. Hopefully it will not weigh much more then the current model, be nimble, and seem like a bargain compared to the 3 series and only command a slight premium over TL and G35. It certainly has a nicer more luxurous interior then the 3 series and G35 but probrably will not outperform those two.

Rockville

Lexus has their gaze directly on the 3 series and that is why we will have an IS250/325i battle and also an IS250AWD/325Xi variant matchup. We will eventually have a coupe/convertible to compete and a sport wagon. The IS350/330i should be an important test of supremacy. With the hot setup of the 3.5 Liter it will be a good horserace against the new BMW engine. Many of the CL regulars give BMW the vote of confidence in previous model comparisons. When the first generation IS300 arrived it had better performance, handling and braking than the 328i. When AMCI did the testing they were amazed when they observed an IS300 do better on the wet slalom than the BMW 328i did on the dry slalom course. The IS300 braking was the best on the planet at the time and was consistently 20ft better in the 60-0 panic stop. It just didn't have the Lexus interior IMO. The BMW frankly had more luxury appeal. Lexus will not make that mistake again. The G35 has been a good car for Infiniti and the Acura TL loaded with toys. The new IS will appeal to this crowd but Lexus mainly is focused on BMW. They are the only player of signifigance left for Lexus to compete with in the US. Lexus wins now because of its dominance in the Sport Utilities. Mercedes is a distant third place. Infiniti and Acura would have to join together (not that they ever would) inorder to compete with Lexus in market share. As Biker and SPWolf have commented now the challenge will be to open the European front and the IS220d and IS250 are a signal that they are serious about joining the fray there. Lexus has quietly decided to separate the brand in Japan. They are opening 150 dealerships across Japan on the same day!

LexFather

Yeah, its cool to be faster when everything else is lacking. lol. Or there are huge deficiencies in other areas. I think Lexus has made a big name for itself b/c most times, their offereings are all-around players, not some one-way mentality.
The G35 sells I think 5-6k a month. The TL sells 7k a month. The ES sells 7k a month. The new IS is going after the 3 but will take some sales from all those cars some. With the new IS having such a spectacular interior, the ES really has to step it up next time around, since the IS is sport and ES is luxury.
Its great what competiton does sometimes, like in this case.

TheRupp

Question: If the TL is competing with the IS, then what's Acura's shot at the LS?

flipside909

Acura's shot at the LS is supposed to be the RL but it's also the GS.

UDel

Acura does not make a car that competes against the LS. If they did it would need to be alot larger then the RL and focus more on luxury cruising and cost over $60,000. The RL competes with mid level offerings like the GS, A6, 5series, E class, M35. Acura would need to have a large seperate platform, v-8, or possibly hybrid v-6 plus all the luxo goodies to convice buyers to spend that much.
The TL competes with current the ES, GS, I35,C-class and to a lesser extent the 3 series, A4, and IS300 which are in a smaller size class. TSX would compete with IS250, base 3 series, 4 cyl A4, Mazda 6.

TheRupp

The reason that I asked is because it seems as though we're actually knocking out 3 of Acura's cars with the IS: The TSX (250), the TL(350), and the RSX (with the upcoming coupe?)

UDel

The RSX would not compete with a IS coupe. The RSX is a small 4 cyl performance sports hatch with a more luxurous higher quality interior then its competition the celica, Tc coupe, sentra, focus, tiburon, mazda 3. It costs between 22-26 thousand. The IS coupe if they make one will be a v-6 luxury performance car that would compete mainly with the 3 series coupe, G35 coupe, SLK, 350Z, RX-8, CL coupe if they do another one, and v-6 TT. It would cost at least $30,000 and probrably top out at $40,000. RSX and IS totaly different body types, size, class, and price. I think the TL is more of a ES competitor since they are about the same size and priced similiar but people may still cross shop IS too even though it is a good deal smaller.

LexFather

Acura does not go against people toe to toe. When they do, outside the MDX, and Legend, they get crushed. Looking at their lineup, they all fit in-between the rest of the competition.
RSX is really Celica competion but b/c of the Acura badge, is seen as a higher car, even though it is Civic based.
The TSX is really Altima, Camry, Accord, etc competition but b/c of its badge, its seen as 3/IS/C class compeition.
The TL is really ES 330, Avalon, FWD A4, competition but closer in size to the GS/A6, etc but is Accord based and is sporty for a FWD car.
The RL is the flagship but is not close to the LS 430/S/7 series class. The RL is AWD GS 300 and AWD M35 competiton. No V-8 option means its still a class behind the E/5/GS etc
The NSX is Ferrari/Porsche competiton but more than a well optioned 911, less than a Ferrari and now 13 years old.
The MDX does battle most SUVs head on and does very well there.

Acura tried battling head on with the 1st gen TL, RL, SLX etc and failed badly. So they started loading their cars up and pitching the value tent. And its worked, Acura has never sold better.

TMQ

I do not quite agree with you. I test drove TSX and IS300 back to back on twisty roads at Olympic view drive near Edmonds WA, and have to say that TSX is nicer than IS in some aspects - exterior (front) and interior layerout (although IS' instrument panel is very unique); shifting (much smoother 6sp vs. 5 sp); more interior room. Handling is about equivalent, difference in FWD vs RWD is not noticable to me, despite pushing to almost double the speed limit. No way does TSX compete with Accord, Altima - handling is way better.

I was also at the Lexus taste of luxury event, comparing ES, TL and some other cars (G35, 5 series, etc.) Test course is too short to tell the major differences, but ES is a big boat for sure; luxurious, handles quite poorly though. Sales number says, the average consumer couldn't care less. (about 8000 ES sold in Feb.05, vs about 400 IS, vs about 2000 TSX)

I'm definitely interested in the new IS, hopefully it will be a bit bigger in interior room than the 1st gen. The car looks very good. The L badge is a big factor to me, no doubt.

biker

Nice review and welcome to CL.

Yes, the new IS is bigger inside.

LexFather

Welcome to Clublexus.