IS350 price guessing revisited
05-16-05, 05:20 AM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by AmethySC
The vast majority of real world car buyers are not hard-core performance enthusiasts that read these magazines or take their track oriented evaluations seriously, they're more concerned about which car is better suited for them for their everyday driving, so it's no surprise the reviews are not having a major impact.
The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
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The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
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However, they sometimes do some routine tests for the average driver....like with family sedans and minivans.....and rate those products more objectively.
And...trust me.....there are MANY non-hard-core drivers who read these publications every month and are not interested in drag-strip acceleration or Formula-1 cornering.
05-16-05, 08:04 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by smitguy
Since this is all just speculation at this point -- I guess I'll jump in as well (only speaking to the U.S. market, as I have no idea how the brand is marketed elsewhere in the world).
I disagree with those posters who believe that Lexus will position (price-wise) the IS350 at or above the 330i and C320. While those of us on this board tend to favor the Lexus brand, and feel that the products produced by the brand are worthy of asking prices equal to or more than those put out there by MB and BMW, I believe that the marketers at Lexus understand that the general car buying population does not value Lexus as an equal to MB or BMW.
I believe this is borne out by the pricing on the new GS. Taking a look at the new GS430 (for example), if you go to lexus.com and build the new GS430, then compare it to similarly equipped E500 and 545i models (no sport packages, no metallic paint charges), the lexus comes out $5-7K cheaper. Not because the E or 5 series are any better, but because that's where the price point for the GS has to be in the U.S. for the car buying public to consider it over the MB or BMW (call it snob appeal, gotta-have-it factor, or whatever else you want). This pricing differences appear to continue across all the cars in the Lexus lineup (LS v. 7 v. S -- GX v. X5 4.4 v. ML500 -- LX v. G-Wag -- ES v. C Class).
Looking at the 330i, a 330i equipped with options that should be part of the IS350 package (auto, PP, CWP, Nav, Sat. Radio, PDC, sunshade) comes out to about $44.9K. Based on the current pricing structure, I would guess that the IS350 would come similarly equipped for around $41.5 - 42.5 (keeping the current pricing hierarchy in place-- more than a TL or Infiniti G, but less than the C320 or 330i).
On the other hand, this could be the time that Lexus decides to draw a line in the sand, and say from now on, our cars will be priced using the MB and BMW pricing structure-- but it may be a risky strategy to base pricing on actual value and not perceived value (I know that sounds a bit dim -- but like they say, sometimes perception is reality).
Anyway -- just fun to guess. We'll have to wait a couple of months to find out.
I disagree with those posters who believe that Lexus will position (price-wise) the IS350 at or above the 330i and C320. While those of us on this board tend to favor the Lexus brand, and feel that the products produced by the brand are worthy of asking prices equal to or more than those put out there by MB and BMW, I believe that the marketers at Lexus understand that the general car buying population does not value Lexus as an equal to MB or BMW.
I believe this is borne out by the pricing on the new GS. Taking a look at the new GS430 (for example), if you go to lexus.com and build the new GS430, then compare it to similarly equipped E500 and 545i models (no sport packages, no metallic paint charges), the lexus comes out $5-7K cheaper. Not because the E or 5 series are any better, but because that's where the price point for the GS has to be in the U.S. for the car buying public to consider it over the MB or BMW (call it snob appeal, gotta-have-it factor, or whatever else you want). This pricing differences appear to continue across all the cars in the Lexus lineup (LS v. 7 v. S -- GX v. X5 4.4 v. ML500 -- LX v. G-Wag -- ES v. C Class).
Looking at the 330i, a 330i equipped with options that should be part of the IS350 package (auto, PP, CWP, Nav, Sat. Radio, PDC, sunshade) comes out to about $44.9K. Based on the current pricing structure, I would guess that the IS350 would come similarly equipped for around $41.5 - 42.5 (keeping the current pricing hierarchy in place-- more than a TL or Infiniti G, but less than the C320 or 330i).
On the other hand, this could be the time that Lexus decides to draw a line in the sand, and say from now on, our cars will be priced using the MB and BMW pricing structure-- but it may be a risky strategy to base pricing on actual value and not perceived value (I know that sounds a bit dim -- but like they say, sometimes perception is reality).
Anyway -- just fun to guess. We'll have to wait a couple of months to find out.
Welcome to Clublexus. I don't see the IS being more than a GS 300, period.
05-16-05, 08:07 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by AmethySC
The vast majority of real world car buyers are not hard-core performance enthusiasts that read these magazines or take their track oriented evaluations seriously, they're more concerned about which car is better suited for them for their everyday driving, so it's no surprise the reviews are not having a major impact.
The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
There's a huge difference between the VDIM & the i-drive issue.The VDIM to the mainstream buyer will not be an intrusion for 99% of their driving, if at all, & in fact will be a very valuable asset in extreme/emmergency situations, whereas with the i-drive, they have to deal with it much more frequently whenever they are in their cars.
They said the VDIM for the IS will be less intrusive, but I do agree they should make it possible to turn off the VDIM for the IS & the GS in the future though.
The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
There's a huge difference between the VDIM & the i-drive issue.The VDIM to the mainstream buyer will not be an intrusion for 99% of their driving, if at all, & in fact will be a very valuable asset in extreme/emmergency situations, whereas with the i-drive, they have to deal with it much more frequently whenever they are in their cars.
They said the VDIM for the IS will be less intrusive, but I do agree they should make it possible to turn off the VDIM for the IS & the GS in the future though.
05-16-05, 10:01 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by AmethySC
The vast majority of real world car buyers are not hard-core performance enthusiasts that read these magazines or take their track oriented evaluations seriously, they're more concerned about which car is better suited for them for their everyday driving, so it's no surprise the reviews are not having a major impact.
The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
The GS was rated higher than their competitors in some of them BTW, & even those that rated it lower than the M or RL said it didn't really lost, but it's just not the all-out performance car they're looking for, which is actually just opposite to the taste of the mainstream market. Many want a more balanced car for a sedan.
05-17-05, 05:30 AM
#51
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I agree with the BMW, MB comparison. I myself would try a BMW if it were equally equipped at the same pricepoint as a Lexus. Not saying any one brand is superior to the other, but given the same conditions the BMW or MB mark has that little extra "look at me" factor you "would" be getting for free if everything were equal. 
05-17-05, 06:35 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by CK6Speed
. That is why I don't buy Mercedes in the first place. If Lexus follows their pricing plan I'd say that is a mistake.
05-17-05, 10:02 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
I doubt Lexus would price the IS350 over $40,000.00 no matter what the horsepower or how nice it is. It would come too close or over a base GS300 which is a larger, nicer, more expensive vehicle. People would consider the new IS over priced. The new IS looks to be a fairly small car with not alot of interior room so it is more like a smaller sportier version of a GS now instead of a totally different car like the IS300 was. The current IS was never a great selling car nor did it get any rave reviews from auto mags and you can get one for under 30 grand so a $10,000 or more jump is not going to be well received.
Yes a well optioned BMW 3 series sell for well over 40 grand but the 3 series is considered by most to be the best small sports sedan ever made and has won numerous comparisons and awards so it can command a pretty high price. It also has the M3 image which many regard as one of the best sports cars out. Still most consider it over priced and many people do not opt for the larger engine or check off too many options to keep the car in the mid 30 grand price range. The 3 series is not the only IS competition and if it was then Lexus would have stuck with a highly regarded inline six engine since an inline-six is one of the main selling points of a 3 series. I have a feeling the new IS is not going to outhandle or give the same driver feel and involvement as a 3 series but will be a sportier, nimbler, smaller version of the new GS. Look how similiar they look inside and out.
Other IS competition is the G35 since both are Japanese entry level RWD sports sedans and the TL, TSX, A4, CTS, C class, maybe RX-8. Many of these cars can be had for below 30 thousand to mid 30s with a few exceptions like highly optioned C class or CTS. People are going to ask why would I pay so much more for an IS over a G35 when the G35 is much larger and is a very good handler and can be had at 30-37 grand. The TL is much larger too and comes loaded in the mid 30's. The IS is around the same size of a TSX which costs around 26 grand and is a very good handler with a nice interior. By the time the IS comes out the TSX will most likely get a good bump in horsepower and possibly AWD. The ES is larger, roomier, and less expensive so that will be another issue if the IS is priced over 40 grand.
I think an IS250 will base around $27,900( it is a small car with only 215hp) and top out around $32000.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
Yes a well optioned BMW 3 series sell for well over 40 grand but the 3 series is considered by most to be the best small sports sedan ever made and has won numerous comparisons and awards so it can command a pretty high price. It also has the M3 image which many regard as one of the best sports cars out. Still most consider it over priced and many people do not opt for the larger engine or check off too many options to keep the car in the mid 30 grand price range. The 3 series is not the only IS competition and if it was then Lexus would have stuck with a highly regarded inline six engine since an inline-six is one of the main selling points of a 3 series. I have a feeling the new IS is not going to outhandle or give the same driver feel and involvement as a 3 series but will be a sportier, nimbler, smaller version of the new GS. Look how similiar they look inside and out.
Other IS competition is the G35 since both are Japanese entry level RWD sports sedans and the TL, TSX, A4, CTS, C class, maybe RX-8. Many of these cars can be had for below 30 thousand to mid 30s with a few exceptions like highly optioned C class or CTS. People are going to ask why would I pay so much more for an IS over a G35 when the G35 is much larger and is a very good handler and can be had at 30-37 grand. The TL is much larger too and comes loaded in the mid 30's. The IS is around the same size of a TSX which costs around 26 grand and is a very good handler with a nice interior. By the time the IS comes out the TSX will most likely get a good bump in horsepower and possibly AWD. The ES is larger, roomier, and less expensive so that will be another issue if the IS is priced over 40 grand.
I think an IS250 will base around $27,900( it is a small car with only 215hp) and top out around $32000.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
05-18-05, 05:54 PM
#55
Originally Posted by DC52E55
anyone knows the official pricing release date?
i am guessing it would be one or 2 weeks before the cars hit the showrooms which will be in OCT?
i am guessing it would be one or 2 weeks before the cars hit the showrooms which will be in OCT?
05-18-05, 06:25 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by UDel
I doubt Lexus would price the IS350 over $40,000.00 no matter what the horsepower or how nice it is. It would come too close or over a base GS300 which is a larger, nicer, more expensive vehicle. People would consider the new IS over priced. The new IS looks to be a fairly small car with not alot of interior room so it is more like a smaller sportier version of a GS now instead of a totally different car like the IS300 was. The current IS was never a great selling car nor did it get any rave reviews from auto mags and you can get one for under 30 grand so a $10,000 or more jump is not going to be well received.
Yes a well optioned BMW 3 series sell for well over 40 grand but the 3 series is considered by most to be the best small sports sedan ever made and has won numerous comparisons and awards so it can command a pretty high price. It also has the M3 image which many regard as one of the best sports cars out. Still most consider it over priced and many people do not opt for the larger engine or check off too many options to keep the car in the mid 30 grand price range. The 3 series is not the only IS competition and if it was then Lexus would have stuck with a highly regarded inline six engine since an inline-six is one of the main selling points of a 3 series. I have a feeling the new IS is not going to outhandle or give the same driver feel and involvement as a 3 series but will be a sportier, nimbler, smaller version of the new GS. Look how similiar they look inside and out.
Other IS competition is the G35 since both are Japanese entry level RWD sports sedans and the TL, TSX, A4, CTS, C class, maybe RX-8. Many of these cars can be had for below 30 thousand to mid 30s with a few exceptions like highly optioned C class or CTS. People are going to ask why would I pay so much more for an IS over a G35 when the G35 is much larger and is a very good handler and can be had at 30-37 grand. The TL is much larger too and comes loaded in the mid 30's. The IS is around the same size of a TSX which costs around 26 grand and is a very good handler with a nice interior. By the time the IS comes out the TSX will most likely get a good bump in horsepower and possibly AWD. The ES is larger, roomier, and less expensive so that will be another issue if the IS is priced over 40 grand.
I think an IS250 will base around $27,900( it is a small car with only 215hp) and top out around $32000.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
Yes a well optioned BMW 3 series sell for well over 40 grand but the 3 series is considered by most to be the best small sports sedan ever made and has won numerous comparisons and awards so it can command a pretty high price. It also has the M3 image which many regard as one of the best sports cars out. Still most consider it over priced and many people do not opt for the larger engine or check off too many options to keep the car in the mid 30 grand price range. The 3 series is not the only IS competition and if it was then Lexus would have stuck with a highly regarded inline six engine since an inline-six is one of the main selling points of a 3 series. I have a feeling the new IS is not going to outhandle or give the same driver feel and involvement as a 3 series but will be a sportier, nimbler, smaller version of the new GS. Look how similiar they look inside and out.
Other IS competition is the G35 since both are Japanese entry level RWD sports sedans and the TL, TSX, A4, CTS, C class, maybe RX-8. Many of these cars can be had for below 30 thousand to mid 30s with a few exceptions like highly optioned C class or CTS. People are going to ask why would I pay so much more for an IS over a G35 when the G35 is much larger and is a very good handler and can be had at 30-37 grand. The TL is much larger too and comes loaded in the mid 30's. The IS is around the same size of a TSX which costs around 26 grand and is a very good handler with a nice interior. By the time the IS comes out the TSX will most likely get a good bump in horsepower and possibly AWD. The ES is larger, roomier, and less expensive so that will be another issue if the IS is priced over 40 grand.
I think an IS250 will base around $27,900( it is a small car with only 215hp) and top out around $32000.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
In Europes smaller roads and parking spaces, a small size helps.
The 3 and IS are the only 2 cars to offer a true luxurious interior as well as AWD/RWD dynamics. Everyone else offers either one or the other. The C-class is not as sporty as the 3 and IS. The A4 is FWD without the AWD.
But yes, in America, all those cars are competiton in the same class as well as others we have not named.
05-19-05, 01:09 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by UDel
I think an IS250 will base around $27,900( it is a small car with only 215hp) and top out around $32000.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
I would say an IS350 would base around $34900 and top out at 37,800 grand. Pricing it higher will probrably not bother Lexus devoted people but people who cross shop G35,TL, TSX, and other entry level sporty sedans may find it too much.
that'll be quite awesome if you could get fully loaded IS250 for 34K but i dont really think that will happen. lexus stated that they have no intention to go under sub 30K cars.
05-19-05, 02:25 AM
#59
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
THe IS, like the 3 and C are world cars. Thus a small size is advantagous. THey are all shorter than the TSX. The G35/TL are big for their class, like the ES 330. And none are sold in Europe or anywhere outside Japan (the TL is not even sold in Japan).
In Europes smaller roads and parking spaces, a small size helps.
The 3 and IS are the only 2 cars to offer a true luxurious interior as well as AWD/RWD dynamics. Everyone else offers either one or the other. The C-class is not as sporty as the 3 and IS. The A4 is FWD without the AWD.
But yes, in America, all those cars are competiton in the same class as well as others we have not named.
In Europes smaller roads and parking spaces, a small size helps.
The 3 and IS are the only 2 cars to offer a true luxurious interior as well as AWD/RWD dynamics. Everyone else offers either one or the other. The C-class is not as sporty as the 3 and IS. The A4 is FWD without the AWD.
But yes, in America, all those cars are competiton in the same class as well as others we have not named.
05-19-05, 03:09 AM
#60
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One thing that could be telling when the price does come is the price diff between MSRP and invoice. It seems to me that if the diff will as large as on the GS, then maybe Lexus is leaving in a lot of fudge factor just in case sales stumble. Since the IS250 will be the volume car, the price on that must more careful weighed than the 350 which could have more variation.