spwolf

i agree.

I dont really see what is there to argue. BMW broke down, could not complete any tests, they had to use previous results. Car spun during straigh line brake testing. Didnt want to turn on.

How the heck was it rated at all? If it was Caddy, it would not be rated at all.

And can you imagine how pissed off were the editors while testing the car? just unbelievable...

Jurwin

Quick question,
If you get the Performance Luxury Plus package for the IS350 are you stuck with the silver trim? Or can the wood trim be had with the Performance Luxury Plus package as an individual option?

flipside909

Yes silver trim only option available for Performance Luxury Plus package.

DallasLex

iTrader: (1)

The only reason for BMW's 5 yr/ 40K mile service/warranty offer is "Low Quality-Constant Headache-Expensive to repair" perception by the public!

When buying my LX470, the dealer tried to sell me a non-Lexus extended warranty. I pointed to a Dodge Intrepid parked outside and said: "With that car, you need to offer and ext. warranty"
I have had no problems with my Lexus since delivery; just do basic maintenance and go.

Bimmer Problems just to name a few:

2004/2005 BMW 5 series(E60): New body style....
1. Computer/navigation [IDRIVE]electrical problem(Navigation goes out and with it go the A/C and radio controls): Car needs to go back to dealership for at least a week for either a new nav or flash the old one and cross your fingers.

2. Tire noise: uneven wear and annoying noise causing so many owners to complain that BMW has considered changing suppliers..........Yeh that darn run flat Dunlap!

3. Noise, Vibration, and Harshness at intolerable levels due to low quality window seals and door jams leaking outside noise in. Car has to go back for refitting of door components.

4. Battery Drainage - to the point where the car's ECU malfunctions and Computer goes into sleep mode..........car has to be TOWED to the dealer for them to contact BMW for advise.

I guess I'm just paranoid; the BMW fans say these are not real problems and the driving experience makes up for it. The question I have for them is: Do you mean the driving experience in the rental car?

TheRupp

I gotta question that too... The only real driving experience I get is when I know that there's no place for a cop to hide. Other than that, please move along, I'm trying to get to work on time without my car breaking down on me.

chiawei

the problem is that for many BMW owners they do have other options to get around.

BMW quality is not as bad as you make it out to be. A lot of issues you posted are electrical related. The door seal issue was not poor material, it was a design issue which has been re-designed and replaced under warranty (this is the 1st time i have seen door seal issues on any BMW).

As far as uneven wear goes, with any BMW, this is a norm. Especially with M car since the tires are setup to worn on the inside to increase the grip.

Tire noise from the runflat is high, but what does needs has to do with BMW? At least they use better stock tires. One thing I never liked about Toyota/Lexus is they give you cheap tires on $40k+ vehicle.

People who like BMW probably will not cross shop any lexus. IS350 is a great car, but to if what C&D state is true that IS comes with paper light steering with too much power steering boost then there really is no point for its 306 ponies.

spwolf

it is kind of hard to say quality is not as bad when CD could not complete any tests with their test car :-).
Apperantly it is much worse than Lexus.

People who like BMW? And who are those people? 70% who bought 2.5l 184hp engine? :-). Lets not over-glorify things, BMW is status symbol and people buy it because it is status symbol. Smaller % of drivers buy them because they are sportier.

Point of 306 horses is to make sure status symbol buyers look at 306hp square butt, all the time. Then BMW owners can point out to their passangers how they read in CD that Lexus got lighter steering...

:-).

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I fail to understand the point about the problems being electrical. Who cares...problems are problems. If they continue for a long period of time that's even worse. I had a Plymouth Satelite for my first car. Needed repair every month. Most were electrical. That didn't make me feel any better. That didn't decrease my frustration. What's the point? The car has problems...that's all.

Legends6spd

I'm not here to argue who won the competition. Seems to me the IS350 should've won hands down. But enough w/ that argument, I'm here only to question the 5.1 0-60

I know they compared it with other cars, but this particular IS350 may be a ringer (no proof I know)... and unless other magazines consistently test 5.1 in 0-60, I'm still willing to believe Lexus claim of 5.5. 300hp auto (even w/ more torque) with IS350's weight SHOULD be a mid 5 second car. and like i said b4, if 5.1 is true, then an IS350 with a manual will beat a E46 M3 which is just not gonna happen. Everyone here's on crack if you think that is the car you are getting.

I'm a Lexus guy but I'm not going to let the hype cloud my judgement of a newly released car. If it turns out later that I'm wrong, then that's great for Lexus. Until then, better use reason and common sense then to jump to conclusions that'll make us look like a fool.

Gojirra99

Car & Driver frequently got the fastest times that are NEVER matched by other magazines, sometimes even by themselves in a second test of the same model, I guess they are the only car magazine that keep getting these ringers from all the car manufacturers lol . . . I do agree we need to see more subsequent tests to establish how fast the times this car can get under most situations/circumstances.

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

I'm not here to argue either. Your original statement talked of the physical possibility of whether a car of such power could achieve such low times. So my response is only to address that statement, whether it is an IS350 or any other car of similar HP/weight /drivetrain then, yes it's possible. Now if you are talking the credibility of C/D to report the 5.1 time, then yes that leaves an area of doubt and suspicion to me, since they have had a record of reporting faster than average times for a lot of cars.

If your point is to make people aware to not ONLY believe the C/D figures and that other mags may have a more realistic measurements, then I am in agreement with that. No two magazines use the exact testing equipment or methods. Also keep in mind that not all tests are done under the same ideal atmospheric conditions or at the same track conditions, let alone 99% of those new owners are not professional drivers. I'd be willing to put money down to take people from this forum to drive the exact same test car and end up with 9 out of 10 not being able to achieve the time recorded by the magazine test drivers. With all these variables NO one should assume what they read in a magazine will be easily achieved with them behind the wheel.

So it is apparent that C/D has historically lower numbers than what other mags report. At the same time, if the report tested a BMW vs an IS and other cars all on the same day under the same conditions, then the performance of those cars relative to each other should be relatively consistent. It is only the times achieved in the tests that may be in question.

Now in this case the Bimmer broke down, which in my opinion it should have been axed from the review. I have seen other cars axed whenever there are tuner shoot outs etc. so why pull info from the past and slip it into this review. That is neither fair nor reliable as far as I'm concerned.

In the end, this discussion is only based around comparing stock for stock. If I bought a 350, I guarantee it would stay stock forever and I would mod it to the performance level that met my personal needs.

JBrady

Performance POTENTIAL is the key here. If the IS350 that recorded a 5.1 zero-sixty is an accurate representation of the production capability... GREAT. It doesn't matter if some or even most drivers are unable to duplicate these numbers. If the CAR can do it, that is what matters. I have NEVER seen ever a report stating "well, our crack drivers were able to run 5 second 60 sprints but most of you incompetent drivers out there reading this rag will be lucky to run 7 flat".

Yeah, right.

Any way you cut it the 350 is going to be stiff competition in a competitive segment.

jrock65

About the 0-60 numbers, I don't think there's anything "fishy" going on here. C&D usually gets the fastest 0-60 times for any car.

However, the IS350 did not ACTUALLY go 0-60 in 5.1s on the test day (and neither did the G35 get 5.9s or the 330i get 6.0s). I'm not sure by how much, but ALL of the cars tested were in actuality slower than the reported times.

C&D corrects for temperatures and test conditions, and I think it was really hot on the test day, which would usually have an adverse effect on straightline performance. Which means that all of the cars, including the IS350, had their times adjusted downwards.

Doesn't change that the IS350's relative performance was still hands down ahead of the others.

It is possible that the IS350's acceleration is not much affected by heat or cold for whatever reason, but we can never be sure.

jrock65

Here's how C&D extrapolates their test numbers.

"At the test site we measure humidity, barometric pressure, and temperature. To eliminate the effects of weather on performance, we employ proprietary empirical correction factors to adjust all results to dry air at 14.7 psi and 60 degrees Fahrenheit using PsyCalc 98 software (www.linric.com) to crunch the weather data. Since cars run best in cold dense air, our correction tends to add time to results generated in low-temperature, high-pressure conditions and subtract time from hot-weather, low-pressure tests."

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=2

KILLERGS4

BMW
Performance / Luxury

Lexus
Luxury / Performance

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