I can't believe you're using a Mercedes to justify the cost of the 250. Seriously, these 5k in options everyones on about - aren't those just the same options you get standard in every near-luxury or luxury car on the market right now. Leather, dual climate control, steering wheel mounted controls, etc? If we're going to start posting car configs and prices should I just plop the Acura TL or G35 prices in here? I'll give you the quick and dirty. Loaded G35x (yes, AWD) = 39k. No AWD = 35k. Loaded TL = 36k with Nav. Now try to justify the price of the 204hp/180tq IS250.

Haha, you're right - it is a little extreme. I know, not the best analogy, but you get the picture. You're right and wrong on those cars you mentioned, though. Take the TSX. TSX's are about as slow as the IS250, but they're also MSRP at 2k less, AND they *come* loaded minus nav. So a loaded IS250 is what? 5-7k more than a loaded TSX? That's a lot of cash. Sure, one is RWD, one is FWD, one's a euro accord, one's a straight up Lexus... But let's be objective here - they're pretty comparable in terms of power/features/drive. The problem I guess I have is that the IS250 MSRP's at less than 1K less than a an Infiniti G35. When you put the most common options in both they're almost the same price, which means they're all the same price (give or take) as the TL too (which comes loaded). So now instead of comparing G35's and TL's to IS350's we're comparing them to IS250's. And frankly, the IS250 doesn't stand a chance in those comparisions (imo). The interior quality is awesome, but aside from that....well you tell me.

Now someone is going to post about how it isn't all about hp/tq, to which I will reply - then what *is* it about? Aside from interior refinement, what's the IS250 got than the G35 and TL don't have? I can tell you what it doesn't have, and less hp and tq by 70-90hp and 50-80 tq and 0-60, 1/4 times that are 2 seconds slower. That's a lot.

Guys, I know, I am a ***** and won't let it go. I agree the IS350 is a good value, having looked at the options list again. However, I just can not grasp the thought process behind pricing the IS250 on par with cars like TLs, A4s, G35s, CTS, etc... I just can't.

 

At this time, Mercedes C-Series, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac CTS, and Audi A4 all charge extra for automatic transmission, metallic paint, leather seats, 6-disc in-dash CD players, power seats, and other options. Check out their websites; these usually add another $5k to the base price.

Lexus has these options standard. Thanks Lexus!

 

I guess it's a bit hard to justify paying MSRP right now for a loaded IS250 AWD for $40,000 when you could get an RL for pretty much the same price ($40,000).

But it's always fun to be first on the block with a brand new model.

 

you are quite funny dude. Let me put it this way, if you care about speed, then why not buy IS350, which is only 1k more than comparable G35 (MSRP), and you get sooo much more? Power, equipment, luxury, .... just 1k more... And yes, luxury matters... it is entry luxury sedan. Plus -1 sec 0-60 does wonders for your self esteem. I mean, how much in aftermarket would you have to spend to improve 1/4 mile by 1 sec?

:-)

I have a feeling we have lots of visitors on the boards these days, trying to argue how their beloved cars are somehow better than IS, which is cool but maybe not for these boards.

 

I don't know why some of this b****in' upsets me!! Just don't buy the IS if it's "too slow"! I would want to pay for the better service, refinement, and reliability of a car. Even though I will only lease a car (let's not get on the lease vs. finance subject), I want something that has the total package at a reasonable price. I had an 03 A4 1.8t built and backed out at the last minute for fear of reliability issues (came from an 02 Jetta VR6 w/issues). I chose the Honda instead and it still brings me smiles every day (except w/some build quality issues). I want to move up to the luxury side, but can't justify spending $35k for a Honda, albeit nice, with a different emblem on it. At least Lexus is it's own brand and built in Japan.

My brother has a 05 SC430 and his wife has an 05 RX330 Thundercloud Edition. When I sat in the RX, I have never felt leather that felt so good! I can't wait to pay my $35+ hard earned money on a car with the refinement and quality of the IS250! If I'm blessed enough, I'll get the 350, but we'll have to wait and see.

All of this to say, don't stress out over the car if it's not the fastest 0-60. Lexus didn't drop the ball, they are not behind, yada yada yada! People complain about the TSX saying they don't want to pay close to $30k just for a 4 cylinder, but if they put the IS's 2.5 V6 in it, they would think it's worth it.

I'm off my soap box for the time being! Be happy everyone!

 

Sweet dude. I'm not going to knock your opinion. Thats what you think. Fine by me. Nor am I going to persuade you to think otherwise.

I'm just going to post up prices of comparable cars from each brand. Yall can make your conclusion on what you think is a good and bad value. MSRP only, none of that ED stuff or anything else. I only included cars from your post Picus if thats okay with you. I think its safe to say that the 325i and C-class will be more expensive. ALL PRICES DONE ON MANUFACTURERS SITE.


IS250 RWD Auto w/ Destination: $31,810

Premium Luxury Plus w/ 17's: $3,495

Heated/ventilated/perforated seats
Memory for seats, mirrors, and wheel
Auto-dimming outside mirrors with tilt-down
Illuminated aluminum scuff plates
Wood trim
AFS/HID
Rain-sensing wipers
Power tilt/telescope wheel
Power rear sunshade

Parking assist: $500
Headlight washers: $100
Navi/ML: $3,990

Total: $39,895
---------------------------------------------
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro - 30,940

Premium Package - 1,850

Auto dimming mirrors
Rain Sensor
Heated Power Passenger seat
17in wheels

Technology Package - 1,775

Adaptive Bi-Xenons
Memory Seats
Bluetooth

Audio Package - 1,000
Audi Navigation with Glove box 6-CD changer - 1,950
Tire Pressure System - 250
Wood Interior - 400
Park Assist - 350
Rear & Side Sunshade - 400
Headlight washers - 150

Total - $41,185

A few things the Audi doesnt offer is the SmartAccess system, In dash CD or DVD player, Ventilating seats, illuminating scuff plates, power tilt/tele wheel, and a few other small things.
-------------------------------------------------

CTS 2.8L - $31,235

2.8L V6 LUXURY PACKAGE - 2,350

wood trim package * memory seat adjuster * compass in isrv mirror * 10-way power seats w/ lumbar * heated front seats * universal home remote * theft deterrent system * 16" machine finished wheels

5speed Auto - 1,200
Sunroof - 1,200
INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM - 1,000

Sound system, ETR AM/FM stereo with in-dash 6-disc CD changer, Bose, includes Radio Data System, digital signal processing and 8-speakers

Total - $38,285

Few things Caddy doesnt have that Lexus has......well, lets just say its way to much to list
----------------------------------------

Acura TL w/Navi - $35,940

Few things Acura doesnt have that Lexus has, Smart Access, Ventilated seats, Illuminating scuff plates, Power rear sunshade, park assist, rear view camera, power tilt tele wheel, REAL wood, Adaptive Xenons, 10 way power seats(compared to TL's 8 and 4), and a few other small things
----------------------------------------
G35 Auto - $31,950

Premium Package w/ full size spare - 3,500

Sunroof
Intelligent Key
Rear air vents
Bose
Memory seats
Dual AC
Power tilt/tele wheel
Manual reclining rear seats

DVD Navi - 1,800
Wood interior - 250

Total - $37,500

A few things Infiniti doesnt offer that Lexus does is rear sunshade, 10way power seats, illuminating scuff plates, Adaptive Xenons, Park assist, Rear view camera, Tire pressure system, headlight washers, ventilating seats, Real wood and a few other minor things.


What the Infiniti has that the Lexus doesnt is Manual reclining Rear seats.


The Infiniti undercuts the IS250 by 2 grand and the TL by 4 grand when comparably equipped. But, both cars still dont offer all the features that the IS250 does at that price. So basically the main arguement we can make here is that the G35 and TL make more power for the money and thats about it. All great cars, but yall can make up your minds if you perfer more luxury or more speed.

ENJOY YALL!!!!

 

I answered the "Why don't you buy an IS350?" thing in the first line of the post you quoted.I have about as much car/brand loyalty as a toaster. I know my cars shortcomings.

Let me see if I can answer this in bullet points. I will try my damnest not to be a sarcastic *****.

1) The MSRP of the IS350 is 4k more than a G35 sedan, so you're wrong about that. G35 MSRP = 31,995. . A loaded G35 can be had for under 38k with every single option including nav and sattelite radio, a loaded IS350 is going to be well, WELL into the 40's. No one can argue that because now we know pricing.

1.5) (because I added this later). This is one sort of long winded and OT, non gearheads skip it.

"and you get sooo much more? Power, equipment, luxury, .... just 1k more... And yes, luxury matters... it is entry luxury sedan. Plus -1 sec 0-60 does wonders for your self esteem. I mean, how much in aftermarket would you have to spend to improve 1/4 mile by 1 sec?"

I don't know what qualifies as 'soooo' much more power, I guess you mean the 0.8 second difference to 60, or the 0.8s difference in the 1/4? OK, lets assume it's a second on both accounts. You're right, that's a lot faster. Again, not for 1k though - more like 7k, but lets just assume the difference in price is 5k loaded (it's not). For 5k I can add a vortech and will be in the low to mid-13's in the 1/4. Would I do that? No. But you asked.

2) I've said time and time again the IS350 is a good value. I'm not talking about the IS350. I think it's a better car than the G35 in every respect except handling, which is why, at 5-8k more, I still think it is worth it. Please read that again. I think that at 45k loaded the IS350 is worth it, even though it costs between 3-8k more than other cars "in it's class". That leads me to #3, the IS250.

3) The IS250, in my opinion, is a terrible value. Twice now people have said "dude, if you care about speed get an IS350". See, I have always been interested in the IS350. I never even considered the 250 since it's a 200hp 8 second car, and I personally can't live with that. However, I still contend it's a terrible value. Why don't folks interested in the 250 and decent speed just get a 350? I will tell you why - $8,655, that's why. Similarly equipped the IS350 is over $8,000 more than the 250. I'm pretty sure at 20% of the value of the car, most folks who are buying in the 35k range don't just have an extra 7k laying around. Let me say this in as simple a way as possible - The Lexus IS that is priced similar to the G35, TL, A4 and so on *IS THE IS250* not the 350. My point all along has been that for 35k you can get a loaded A4, G35, TL which will all have similar features, options, and yes, even luxury, and are all *much* more powerful. This isn't an 'omg the g is the best' post, it's an 'omg, the is250 is priced with cars that are similar in every respect, except that they are 2 seconds faster to 60 and the 1/4".

I didn't come here to extoll the virtues of the G35. I also own a 330i and have been known to knock it quite a bit. . I don't have brand loyalty like some of you obviously do. I am well aware both cars have their flaws (the g's interior is sadly below average, and the car has too much wind noise, the 330i hashad electrical problems and is kind of uninspiring to drive) What I do have is objectivity, and in my opinion (read that part again), lexus was out of their mind pricing the IS250 on par with cars like the TL, G35, A4 etc...Maybe some foks will see the 35k-39k sticker and think it's a great car for that price. OK. I just think anyone doing their homework and test driving multiple cars is going to think at some point that the IS250 feels a lot slower than other cars in it's class and what it offers (more options, nice interior) doesn't make up for being so underpowered.

So again, the IS350 is a good value. It offers luxury, refinment *AND* class leading performance, which is why it's worth mid 40's. The IS250 offers luxury, refinement, but at 35k it is severely outpaced by several cars with similar features, technology, options, and refinment.

 

Cool, thanks for doing that. I guess what I was saying all along is I am a little surprised Lexus decided to price the IS250 above cars like the G35, TL, and near the A4, CTS, 325i, etc...I was under the impression, at 200hp, that it would be priced much lower. I do agree (and have said so) that it has an excellent fit and finish and probably the second best interior under 50k I've ever seen. I just can't get past the lack of power in a 39k car.

It will be interesting to see if the mags start comparing based on price rather than engine size. At this rate the IS350, S40/60 and 330i are in a class of their own, while the IS250, G35, TL, A4, CTS, 9-3 are all in the 35-40k class.

 

First off, you have basically lost almost all credibility by saying the IS 250 reminds you of an Acura El, which is LITERALLY a Civic with Acura badges, possibly the worst current luxury badged car. To even say that, is ridiculous.

You keep getting caught up in HP and power. How old are you? Where exactly are you going? Don't you realize some cars NEED to have tons of power,b/c they LACK severely in other areas. Don't you understand many people DO NOT care, no do the majoirty of cars sold have the 800hp you want.

With the IS 250 you have getting the best built car in class. Its is built in the Tahara plant, the worlds most revered auto plant. You get all the luxury, the quality, the features. So what, it doesn't have 800hp.

Just last year, BMW sold in America a 184hp not just a 325 but a 525. For 50k with options. And guess what, BMW sells 1,500 of them EVERY month. In Europe there is an even punier engine, 520 car.

Lexus owners ARE NOT caught up in only peak power. If that is all your arguement is and if that is all your car has to offer, you can have it. Lexus is about the TOTAL package.

Also, the Lexus IS is a WORLD car. it can only be compared truly to the GErmans, which are ALSO world cars. In Europe, a 204hp gas engine is PERFECT and the IS 220d will have the most powerful diesal in class. The TL and G35 (Nissan Skyline) are not sold in Europe, they are mostly for America if not only for America (in the TLs case).

Finally, who is to say, Lexus is not just STARTING with the IS 250 and then move to a 3.0 ala the GS 300 becoming the GS 350 and the ES 300 becoming the ES 330

 

I want you to get this through that thick skull of yours before this thread stinks anymore. Let me explain from a BUSINESS perspective, why the IS costs more than the damn TSX and G35. Let me explain the BIG picture, b/c I am starting to believe you are 16 years old and only can quote HP and 0-60 times from Motor Trend.
1. The IS is more expensive b/c it is built from a MORE EXPENSIVE car. This is a GS platform car, a 40-60k car. So the IS has more expensive PARTS. Thus why its more expensive than the other Japanese competiton. In comparison, the TSX is a Honda Accord, period. ITs sells for 18-25k in Europe. OF COURSE the IS will cost more. The G35 is a FM platform car and shares the VQ engine with almost every Nissan in existence. Thus they can keep costs VERY low to the consumer. Sharing=less cost=less MSRP.
2. The IS is like 3, the BEST of both worlds. Solid, quality interior and RWD. WIth the TSX, you get a very nice interior, but with FWD and an I-4. With the G35, you get a powerful V-6 with the worst interior in class. The IS COMBINES the best features of both these cars.
3. Acura is an entry level luxury brand, the RSX, TSX and Acura EL (in Canada) shows this. Infiniti is in the beginning of a turnaround. They cannot AFFORD to price their cars like the competiton. Both brands HAVE to price below the compeittion or buyers will WALK and go with the usual BMW, Benz, Lexus.
Leuxs no longer HAS this issue. They did back in the early 1990s. Lexus has now ESTABLISHED itself, where it can sell cars now for only a couple grand less or even the same price as the Germans. PEOPLE WANT A LEXUS B/C its a LEXUS. Not only BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER.
4. This is the LUXURY market. Too many manufacters beat you in the HEAD with HP this and that, as do the magazines. This is NOT what drives the market. And with gas prices at $3.00 and holding, other factors will come into play (but play less havoc on the luxury market as people in this class can afford the goods).


I hope you read and comprehend this.

 

Hey thanks for all the personal insults, inflamatory comments, and general flaming. I like how you ended with "I hope you read and comprehend this". Just a tip - next time you want someone to read something, you might try not starting that something by calling them a thick headed 16 year old with no credibility. Just a thought. Luckily for you, I'm not 16 and have been called much worse (usually by my wife), so I did read, and do comprehend what you wrote, even though it was woefully disjointed. There was a thread here a week or so ago talking about this sort of thing in car forums and how people were glad it wasn't so prevelant here (you know the one). . I've remained non-confrontational and haven't called names, inferred anyone was 16 or thick skulled. I've stuck to the facts (if you can find fault with my fact, please let me know). I'm having a discussion, if that's hard for you then maybe you should ignore me. If you can read my posts and honestly think I'm 16, well, you can't - you're just trying to be a *****. So in the future you can either ban me, ignore me, or stop being a **** and calling me names because you disagree with me. If you want to converse, fine - but when I converse, I don't call people stupid.

So on to the issue. Hopefully you'll hear me out instead of doing what you accuse me of doing, focusing in the numbers too much. I've said time and time again (and time again) that the interior of the IS is second to none, and that the build quality is, from what I can tell, top notch. Not sure how much more clearly I can say that. Maybe if I repeat it over and over, oh wait - I already have. So OK, re-read that and figure out that we agree. The IS is a well built luxury car. OK, onward.

So alright. The IS costs more than a TL, TSX, G35 because it's built on a more expensive platform. Great. It's got Toyota reliabilty, it's built in a world renowned plant, is incredibly luxurious and refined. We agree. What we disagree on is that power is unimportant. Before I go further let me just say for the record that I am older than you, not that that means anything, but it seems strangely important to you. I've owned cars with as little power as a 94hp Sentra, that I loved. I know power isn't everything, it isn't even the most important thing, but it is important. Why is power important to me? Because I like it, that's why, and so do so many others. You know those people who buy cars because they enjoy driving them? There are so many of us, in fact, that entire magazines have been dedicated to cars, and over the years cars have become more and more powerful. There's a reason for that, and let me tell you - it isn't decreasing gas costs or increasing speed limits. It's because people like fast cars. If the BMW 325i crawled to 60 in 8 seconds, you and many other Lexus-brand-defenders would be harping on it all over the place. Do I think power is all that sells cars? Of course not. I said more than once that people will still buy the IS250 even though it's grossly underpowered in its segment. I just think that they're missing out, and I know I'm not alone. This is where we reach an impass, what I like to call a difference of opinions, perhaps you've heard the phrase?

Frankly, I don't care is the IS is based on a more expensive GS platform (although it's nice), all I care about is that the platform the car is based on is reliable and suits my needs. The FM may not be as expensive as the GS but it's reliable and is a good platform, so good on them that it can save some money.

So let me finish by saying this. It is, esentially, the thesis of my entire argument here, and the only point I am trying to make. You can agree or disagree. You can justify the IS250's high price in many ways, that doesn't change the fact that there are cars in it's segment that are as, or almost as refined, have similar technology and options, and just happen to outpower it by a wide margin. That's all I've ever said. I'm going to bed. Have a nice night, and if you still think I'm a thick headed 16 year old with no credibilty who's mom wears army boots and who likes to pick his nose, etc.. ok fine, just don't respond to me. Let everyone read my posts and come to their own conclusions. If that's "wow, he's an idiot", ok.

Oh, and the EL thing was clearly a joke. Stop taking yourself so seriously.

 

^^^^^ And your missing the bigger picture. You and many people will not agree with the IS 250 nor 350 pricing. That is cool, everyone will think what they think.

At this point, we see your point and please don't beat this thread to death with it. We see it, we understand, you don't think the IS 250 is a good deal. Many people will not and speak with the wallets and go to another brand.

I didn't say the FM platform was a bad platorm. Its an OUTSTANDING platform. What I was explaining was the GS platform is simply more expensive to make than the FM platform. Another reason is the GS platform and engines and the IS platform and engines will not be shared with 500 differnt products, so from a business standpoint, the FM cars will always cost less. I am not saying its a bad thing. But from a COST persepctive, Lexus will simply cost more to make.

And Lexus/Toyota does share, the Camry platform (Cam, ES/Highlander/RX) is an example of this. Audi does with the Golf and A4. Volvo S40 is a Focus platform.

I am not saying the IS 250 is not slow, nor will I argue that it is ahead of its competitors performance wise. But clearly, Lexus, being the subject matter expert, knows what it is doing.

They will sell every last 250 they can make, just like 325s sell like hotcakes.

 

Gotchya. It was never my intention to bring this thread down, if I was doing so I apologize. We can agree to disagree. Oh, and I'm 38. I guess that makes me the dumbest 38-year old you've ever met.

 

1sicklex,

need to point out your mistake as well.

IS350's V6 is not new nor it is soley used on the IS. Same is true on the 2.5L V6. The 3.5V6 is now being shared by the avalon, the new rav 4 in US. And chances are it will also be shared on the new 07 camry, and its sibling soon. (not I have not mentioned the obviously that both engine are already in use in Japan under both lexus and toyota brand).

The 2.5 V6 is also shared across other toyota model world wide. Hence IS also benefited from sharing of engine like G35 does.

The new GS platform is also used on toyota (for example, the toyota crown athelete/royale and i believe the new Mark as well).

so platform wise, toyota also shared this platform across both toyota and lexus name plate. The toyota version did not come to US, but it does not mean toyota did not share the platform elsewhere.

Hence your argument of IS costs more to build because it is used solely for luxury brand is wrong.

Sharing of platform and engine is quiet common on toyota/lexus.

 

we should have +rep system on the clublexus so that i can give +++++++++++ rep for you man!

you da man!