flipside is correct on all acounts. Might I add, the IS350 with performance package comes with 255mm wide tires on the back wheels (found on nothing less than an M3 in the 3 series category) and the wider the tires (summer is icing on the cake), the more contact surface area is on the pavement thus require a ot more traction than say 215mm series tires that most of the BMWs have.

I remember watching this Japanese Tsuukba racing circuit video where M3 was pit against the S2000, Z, Boxter etc. in mildy wet weather. The M3 with the widest 255 tires in the back was sliding like an insane car around corners.

p.s. The tested performance numbers especially in acceleration are better on the IS350 than the M45 (source: car and driver).

IS350
0-60: 5.1 secs
Quartermile: 13.7 secs

M45:
0-60:5.6 secs
Quartermile: 14.2 secs

 

Ratman, that was a very good read and evaluation. I am glad your evaluation was unbiased and you highlighted the issues about the IS you were dissapointed with and felt could be better or improved instead of just praising it as a Lexus. Since you drove both the BMW 330 and IS350 the same day on the same road and were able to wring them out how was the smoothness of the BMWs inline6 compared to the IS v-6. I know most cars cannot compare to the creamy smoothness of BMWs inline 6 but was there a noticeable difference with this new Lexus v6 engine. I know there is more power in the Lexus but what about the smoothness of acceleration and feel. You seem like you are impressed the most with the BMW and that is probrably the car for you. I like the new 330 but I cannot get over the plain spartan interior of this new model. The E46 interior was pretty much perfect to me and much better then the new Bangle model. I hope you will test drive the G35, TL, TSX, A4, C class, and other cars using the same road and similiar conditions in the future and I look forward to your unbiased detailed evaluation.

 

iono, i've kicked out my 323i's rear end more than once in wet conditions with pretty standard throttle modulation. the DSC killed the car like a lion chasing a fat zebra.

 

Very nice review. Many of us really appreciate it. I think most of us agree that the new IS is one nice looking car with many good standard features. More than likely it will have the Lexus reliability, and the interior is good. Some of the things I wanted to know about since maybe not Lexus, but everyone else was saying the new IS was supposed to be the sports sedan to compate against the BMW 3 series was about the over all feel of the car. You pretty much repeated the same things that some of the early reviewers said about steering feedback, ratio, seats support and such. IMHO, when it comes to the the segment in which the 3 series competes in these are the things that are importent. Lexus has the ES330, and GS for those that want something else. Thanks for the unbiased review.

 

The IS350 engine felt extremely smooth to me. Power delivery was nice and linear (except in first gear with the ECT in normal mode, gotta try PWR mode next time). The 330 feels like it has a little more low end "grunt" than the 350 - which really didn't come alive until over 3000 RPM or so. That being said, acceleration in the 350 is really great. Combined with the velvety smooth transmission, the driveline in the 350 is VERY nice. Just wish the tranny shifted a bit faster. I think anyone will be very happy with the engine/tranny combo in the 350. If not, there's something wrong with you.

However, the one thing that really hurts the 350 in my mind is the complete lack of exhaust rapport. Frankly, the 330i just sounds GOOD for a 6 cylinder, especially when having a little fun with the car. The 350 sounds like NOTHING. In a sport sedan, this is a big piece of the pie, and just another thing that further insulates you from a total driving experience.

I do agree with you on the austere feel of the E90 interior, but while driving, the Bimmer's interior just plain WORKS better. The dash does not impede visibilty nor make you feel confined. Rearward visibility and rear quarter visibility seemed a bit better as well. Drive the cars back to back (and drive them HARD) and you will quickly notice what I wrote in my little review.

I'm glad you thought I was unbiased in my writings, as all I tried to do was state direct observations and factual/objective type thoughts. The funny things is, I was so intent on ordering the IS350 that day (I've had a deposit in since the end of June or so) and had given up on the 330i as "not worth the money." Maybe I was expecting too much. But truthfully, Lexus has delivered FAR TOO LITTLE with this car.

Then Lexus announced the pricing on the IS350 - and glee for the car diminished as it is barely any cheaper than an "overpriced" 330i (equipped as I want).

Then I drove the car. it really is not a "sport" sedan. It's a LUXURY car with rear wheel drive and a big motor. A non-sport 330i is a better driver's car. The interior is really too small compared to it's biggest competitors (G35, Acura TL, 330i, A4, CTS). And the IS is actually a LONGER car than a 330i, has a LONGER Wheelbase than a TL, yet still feels so damn cramped inside. Just poor engineering in my opinion.

And here's the numbers comparison, based on the prices I will actually pay if I buy either car today:

IS350
Performance Package
ML audio - have to add this because the Logic 7 (standard in the 330) is significantly better to my ears - gotta try to equalize things here
Headlight washers - adding them because they come in the cold weather package with 330i
$40825

330i
Sport Package
Premium Package
Cold weather package - gives you headlight washers AND the split fold rear seats
Auto tranny
Metallic paint - may go for white or black which saves me $430 bucks
Comfort access - gotta add since the IS has it standard
$42085 is what I was quoted. And they are going to throw in the lip spoiler too at this price. Right now in the NE, almost anyone can do $1000-$1500 over INVOICE on a RWD 330i. Xi's are all the rage now.

A whopping $1260 difference in price. If I get white or black, the difference drops to only $830

Considering how much more roomy the 330i is, the decision is pretty much a no-brainer, especially after being let down by my test drive experience in the IS.

Also, I'll have to wait 150-180 Days (official estimate from the dealer) for a special order IS to come in with my equipment levels/color, etc. Who knows what interest rates will be like in 6 months. I'll only have to wait 8-9 weeks (56-63 days) for a custom ordered 330i to come in. Actually, there is a good chance that I won't even have to custom order the 330, as the options I'm looking at are all pretty popular.

I'm going to give the IS350 one more shot with the performance package, but I really doubt that it will change my mind.

My best advice is to drive all the cars you're considering on the same day if possible, and decide what is the best choice for YOU. Looks like the 330i is the best choice for me.

 

Ratman,

Have you considered a GS or 5 series? You seem like a big guy.

Maybe a new RL for 42k.

The 3 series is for 20 something’s IMHO.

 

I want something practical (i.e. usable trunk and backseat) that gets good gas mileage (close to 30mpg highway - both the 330i and IS350 meet that)

Fast and fun to drive with an automatic (I've driven stick all my life but my commutes in NJ are killing my poor clutch leg).

I actually prefer a smaller car (I'm currently driving a 94' Honda Accord EX 5-speed sedan). The TL still feels pretty big to me (and is not in the same handling category as the 330i, G35, or even the new IS (though the IS and TL are much closer in the handling department than they should be considering the FWD vs RWD). Haven't driven an RL yet, but with the current discounting, I'll give it a shot. The 330i really is the standout in my mind right now.

The 5 series is just too much money for what you get, and it's just fugly in my opinion.
The GS drives like the luxo-barge that it is. I really am more of a driving enthusiast, so overall vehicle balance/dynamics is my primary concern.

Oh, and my price cap is 40-42K for the car. I don't want much do I????

 

I drove the new IS this weekend as well. Initially, it took me a while to get used to the car. I've owned a NA IS300 that was later supercharged, and now I own a SC300. Personally I think gen2 IS300 is right in the middle of both. Not at 'sporty' as the old IS, but not as heavy or 'cruiser like' as the SC300.


The shifts are much faster, smoother, better than the old IS300.
Much faster than my SC300.
The power mode makes a big difference.
I don't like the paddles so my guess is that it would take a few months to get used to them.
Traction control is easy to set off.
The car is louder at idle and drive than the old IS. (which doesn't really matter to me)


It's a nice new car. If I wanted a quick sedan, I'd consider it - but only in 2-3 years where they do a "sport design" package that has most of the options at 1/2 the price of today (like the old IS300)

I was a bit disappointed, but that's only because I expected too much from Lexus. I wanted the old IS feel with a faster engine.

Right now I would buy the OLD IS300 and put the Toyomoto supercharger with header/exhaust and pounce on the new IS300 all day long - and still keep the twitchy / sporty feel.

 

Ratman - sounds like you might want slightly more sport than it offers, but give the RL a go. At it's current prices (someone just mentioned getting one for $40,200 in Cal), it's an incredible value.

 

This was a really great review in that the driver(s) put a lot of time and thought into their driving experiences and evaluations. I am the same height and, possibly, build as this gentleman, but my experience with the IS 350 is 180 degrees different! I did not experience feeling cramped in the front cabin at all (haven't tried the back seat, yet), responsiveness was phenomenal (it has the Performance Package), the handling was superb ..... I could go on and on listing the specifics of my distinctly different opinion, but you get the idea. In short, it will take a LOT of reports from those who bought the IS350 as well as took a test drive, before any data based conclusions can be formulated or used to indicate a trend. Anyway, I bought a Tungsten Pearl with Sterling leather, IS350 that came with the Performance package. There was no dealer discount but no "enhanced" sticker price, either. After driving the car now since Saturday (today is Monday) and after letting my wife and kids take their turn, the family decision is unanimous: EVERYONE wants to claim ownership! We will be in family therapy very soon, I suspect. This is one great automobile - buy it and live happily ever after!

 

Cars are such a personal thing. I think they are even more personal than clothes. Look around you as you drive to work. I find myself wondering "Why would anyone with half a brain buy car X?" Take that horrible Honda Ridgeline, for example. Or that truck from 2000 that turned into a tent. Or any America car, for that matter.

There are SOOOOO many bad cars out there, yet people choose them for whatever reasons work for them.

There are going to be people who absolutely adore the IS and people who hate it. The only important thing is that you get what you like.

 

This past weekend, I test drove an IS350. It's simply an amazing feeling. The ride was very smooth and handles great. The car fits me perfectly. I am 5'7". I feel like the car is an extension of myself. The car is very oriented toward the driver, which feels great. The test drive experience is still clearly in my mind. I just fell in love with the car.

I also tried out the rear seat. It's very comfortable for someone of my size. I didn't have any size problem at all.

I am waiting for the time when the price of the car is more negotiable. I can't wait to own the new Lexus IS.

 

I choose Lexus over other brands because of its superior quality. If you go to BMW forum, you will know what I am talking about.

 

Writing from a household with both a Lexus and a BMW in the garage, I can say the reliability has been the same for both cars - no problems with either one. The common notion around here is that BMWs fall apart after a few years of use, and after owning several, I can say nothing could be further from the truth.

As far as the whole IS350/330i comparsion, I drove both at a taste of lexus event recently, and I think it's easy to see why people will have a clear preference of one over the other. It's not that either one is a bad car, but they have very different personalities in both style and road manners. Personally, I think that's a good thing. Between the 3 and the IS, these 2 models should have the sport sedan market covered.

 

Brilliant post. People try to fall into one camp or the other. Sure, I can't stand BMW, but that's ME. There are plenty of people who can't stand Lexus, and that's great. Neither opinion takes away from the fact that they are both excellent vehicles.