Mark Levinson -vs- Pioneer - The Showdown
10-22-05, 06:25 AM
#76
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well said, tigmdf99. This whole argument of ML vs Dynaudio is analogous to buying an IS250 and slapping on a big turbo/exhaust/suspension kit, and then saying that you can slap an IS350 around all day. Most people just don't want the hassel or risk of dealing with aftermarket parts/installation that may damage the car and void the warranty, not to mention at a much higher cost. If you can get better sound at the same or lower price, then that's an accomplishment.
10-22-05, 10:24 AM
#78
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Quick! Let's go to Ebay and find the dyn stuff...total for all the speakers should be about 800! 
As for my "bias" ears, they're highly sensitive BS detectors. Marketing guys/gals hate me, especially if the lingo is in print.
BTW...I also tried an audio DVD (Avril lavigne - Under my skin) and it sounded disappointing in the GS430/ML. The real advantage to DVD/DTS is the multichannel. With the ML in multichannel mode, the overall audio still sounded very constrained. I had to switch it out off the surround and it sounded better, but still not up to the "standards" that ML has hyped.
You wouldn't need 7-10k to beat out the ML system. Just some careful tuning (not this 1000 hour "extensive listening" stuff) and a good aftermarket system. There are a few nice HUs out there that can do DVD audio/video. Eclipse, Alpine, etc. That's if you want full video, etc. As for beating out the ML in AUDIO TERMS, all you would really need is a speaker swapout. Some are after the audio only. Some are after the full package. Too many eggs in one basket (and with a budget constraint) spells COST CUTTING and CHEAPNESS. They had to cut somewhere, as they (ML) are in the business to MAKE money, not lose money. Remember, it's a publicshared company...stocks and such...bottom line stuff. Get the picture?
Only exception audio wise is the LS430, but they're tuning for that car completely differently. I went with the GS since it's the only ML system they had there. If they had an IS with the ML, I would have hopped into that too.
Top end OEM vs top end aftermarket, ala ML vs F#1. Plus you can use the aftermarket in other cars and have it fully adjustable to the acoustics of whatever car you choose. 1000 hours of extensive listening not required at the water cooler.
Note...some of the reviews of the ML have been in different vehicles. That'll probably explain why edmunds gave it a "10.0" If the dealership around me gets an IS with ML, I'll be taking a listen to that one too. I might just take along my 240 band RTA (Bruel & Kjaer) to measure the interior acoustics/frequency response. Should be fun.
Percy
As for my "bias" ears, they're highly sensitive BS detectors. Marketing guys/gals hate me, especially if the lingo is in print.BTW...I also tried an audio DVD (Avril lavigne - Under my skin) and it sounded disappointing in the GS430/ML. The real advantage to DVD/DTS is the multichannel. With the ML in multichannel mode, the overall audio still sounded very constrained. I had to switch it out off the surround and it sounded better, but still not up to the "standards" that ML has hyped.
You wouldn't need 7-10k to beat out the ML system. Just some careful tuning (not this 1000 hour "extensive listening" stuff) and a good aftermarket system. There are a few nice HUs out there that can do DVD audio/video. Eclipse, Alpine, etc. That's if you want full video, etc. As for beating out the ML in AUDIO TERMS, all you would really need is a speaker swapout. Some are after the audio only. Some are after the full package. Too many eggs in one basket (and with a budget constraint) spells COST CUTTING and CHEAPNESS. They had to cut somewhere, as they (ML) are in the business to MAKE money, not lose money. Remember, it's a publicshared company...stocks and such...bottom line stuff. Get the picture?
Only exception audio wise is the LS430, but they're tuning for that car completely differently. I went with the GS since it's the only ML system they had there. If they had an IS with the ML, I would have hopped into that too.
Top end OEM vs top end aftermarket, ala ML vs F#1. Plus you can use the aftermarket in other cars and have it fully adjustable to the acoustics of whatever car you choose. 1000 hours of extensive listening not required at the water cooler.
Note...some of the reviews of the ML have been in different vehicles. That'll probably explain why edmunds gave it a "10.0" If the dealership around me gets an IS with ML, I'll be taking a listen to that one too. I might just take along my 240 band RTA (Bruel & Kjaer) to measure the interior acoustics/frequency response. Should be fun.
Percy
10-22-05, 10:34 AM
#79
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by jlin101
well said, tigmdf99. This whole argument of ML vs Dynaudio is analogous to buying an IS250 and slapping on a big turbo/exhaust/suspension kit, and then saying that you can slap an IS350 around all day. Most people just don't want the hassel or risk of dealing with aftermarket parts/installation that may damage the car and void the warranty, not to mention at a much higher cost. If you can get better sound at the same or lower price, then that's an accomplishment.
As for voiding the warranty, the cars warranty CAN NOT be void if the problem isn't related to the part being changed out. Example - dropping in a new set of wheels and then having a door hinge go bad. Or changing out speakers and having the ECU/Engine go flaky. Doesn't work that way. Moss Magnuson ruling of '76. They have to fully document the problem and as to why they aren't honoring the warranty. Gone are the days (hopefully) when changing out the filter for a nice AFE or K&N will void the entire car warranty. Now for damaging the car, that's why you would go to the dealership and ask for a copy of the tear down diagrams. The better dealerships will let you copy them. Guess what? You're now much better informed than any kid at the audio shop. Congrats!
Percy
10-22-05, 10:53 AM
#80
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by clubfoot
Also the ML head unit supports DTS and DVD Audio, and there are few if any CDs that can match high resolution disc for sound quality.
YES, there is more data in DVD/DTS audio.
YES, there is more sampling.
NO- It (having DVD/DTS) doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it SOUND BETTER.
But what they (non audiophiles) doesn't really know is that DTS/DVD is USUALLY remastered to sound better. If the studio took the same amount of care in their older CD release as to their newer DVD/DTS release, you would be VERY VERY VERY hard pressed to tell the difference. Why doesn't the studio do this? Simple. MONEY. More are willing to buy the DTS/DVD format for it's newness in technology rather than buy a remastered CD, that's IF the consumer had the advanced player. Those that usually do are more than willing to throw the extra bucks their way.
Example. Eagles- Hell Freezes Over. They have a nice DTS/DVD format of this. Compare it to their CD release on a channel per channel basis on a high end player. That is, you can leave your DTS decoder on, but physically disconnect all but the left and right channels. Without the ambience, the spectral response is pretty much the same. Very tough to tell. Now where the DTS/DVD magic comes in is when they're pumping on all channels, thus most of the extra data. Also explains the importance of rear fill in an audio system.
Non believers and naysayers...give it a try before you write back. And make sure everything is "apples to apples", so to speak. Use the same player, same speakers, just drop in the CD vs the DVD in audio terms. And while you're at it, keep it on two channel. Enjoy the multi channel later after the quick audition.
Percy
10-22-05, 11:54 AM
#81
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A lot of this has to do with the the level of detail you are after. This is what makes an enthusiast and enthusiast. Go check out the detailing forum and read about how some guys spend two+ days washing their cars. Most of us would just run it through a local car wash and think the car looks great.
Percy's setup is the same as two days of car washing. Most of us are fine with the local car wash. Personally, I'm going to wash my car by hand, but won't spend 2 days doing so. I will also likely upgrade my ML system, though not to the level that someone of his audio sophistication would.
I think Percy's comments are valuable, and only biased toward his expert ear. He is not someone with a stake in proving one better than the other. In his prior posts, he claimed ML is superior. He went and gathered some data, though subjective, and gave us a thorough review.
The bottom line here is that ML > standard Pioneer and upgraded Pioneer > ML. This likely means that upgraded ML > upgraded Pioneer.
What Percy has done here is give us some excellent options; one of those options is to do nothing at all and be happy with what you have. All of these systems are fantastic and there won't be any losers here.
Percy's setup is the same as two days of car washing. Most of us are fine with the local car wash. Personally, I'm going to wash my car by hand, but won't spend 2 days doing so. I will also likely upgrade my ML system, though not to the level that someone of his audio sophistication would.
I think Percy's comments are valuable, and only biased toward his expert ear. He is not someone with a stake in proving one better than the other. In his prior posts, he claimed ML is superior. He went and gathered some data, though subjective, and gave us a thorough review.
The bottom line here is that ML > standard Pioneer and upgraded Pioneer > ML. This likely means that upgraded ML > upgraded Pioneer.
What Percy has done here is give us some excellent options; one of those options is to do nothing at all and be happy with what you have. All of these systems are fantastic and there won't be any losers here.
10-22-05, 01:36 PM
#82
Originally Posted by GonzoBuggs
The bottom line here is that ML > standard Pioneer and upgraded Pioneer > ML. This likely means that upgraded ML > upgraded Pioneer.
What Percy has done here is give us some excellent options; one of those options is to do nothing at all and be happy with what you have. All of these systems are fantastic and there won't be any losers here.
What Percy has done here is give us some excellent options; one of those options is to do nothing at all and be happy with what you have. All of these systems are fantastic and there won't be any losers here.
Personally, i would not add Dynaudio to ML. This means that you tear out a few of the ML speakers (center channel, 2.5" speakers), which would then disorient the ML amplifier and DSP function...or not using DSP function to it's potential. You are essentially destroying what the amplifier has set up to do. In other words, you will destroy the imaging and staging.
IMO, i still think that Dynaudio + ML amplifier = you are not using Dynaudio to it's potential...thus, a waste of money to buy Dynaudio. Let's not even get into using the stock Pioneer syst***s amplifier to power Dynaudio. Go ask your local car audio shop about this...most will agree with me.
If you want to upgrade, then upgrade the WHOLE system (aftermarket power-hungry speakers deserve a powerful amplifier), not just half-assed the upgrade. IMO.
Last edited by tigmd99; 10-23-05 at 04:15 AM.
10-23-05, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoBuggs
A lot of this has to do with the the level of detail you are after. This is what makes an enthusiast and enthusiast. Go check out the detailing forum and read about how some guys spend two+ days washing their cars. Most of us would just run it through a local car wash and think the car looks great.
Percy's setup is the same as two days of car washing. Most of us are fine with the local car wash. Personally, I'm going to wash my car by hand, but won't spend 2 days doing so. I will also likely upgrade my ML system, though not to the level that someone of his audio sophistication would.
Percy's setup is the same as two days of car washing. Most of us are fine with the local car wash. Personally, I'm going to wash my car by hand, but won't spend 2 days doing so. I will also likely upgrade my ML system, though not to the level that someone of his audio sophistication would.
If the wife finds out how much these speakers cost she's going to have a heart attack.
At least other people can SEE that her black RX has been detailed to perfection .
I think I'll leave the ML system in the RX alone for now.
10-23-05, 09:05 AM
#84
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by tigmd99
Definitely. Percy is a good source for aftermarket stuff. However, his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt...as does mine.
Personally, i would not add Dynaudio to ML. This means that you tear out a few of the ML speakers (center channel, 2.5" speakers), which would then disorient the ML amplifier and DSP function...or not using DSP function to it's potential. You are essentially destroying what the amplifier has set up to do. In other words, you will destroy the imaging and staging.
***IMO, there wasn't that much to destroy in the first place!***
IMO, i still think that Dynaudio + ML amplifier = you are not using Dynaudio to it's potential...thus, a waste of money to buy Dynaudio. Let's not even get into using the stock Pioneer syst***s amplifier to power Dynaudio. Go ask your local car audio shop about this...most will agree with me.
***Most local shops have the kids working on cars. Most of them won't even know who/what Dynaudio is, much less Levinson. Most haven't even worked on a high end Lexus. Most are not informed and are subject to the same market hype/babble that is constantly spread out there. If it looks "impressive on print or marketing, then it must be" mentality. Why do so many out there think Bose is high end? Marketing. I would dare say 98+% haven't even tried the options.***
If you want to upgrade, then upgrade the WHOLE system (aftermarket power-hungry speakers deserve a powerful amplifier), not just half-assed the upgrade. IMO.
Personally, i would not add Dynaudio to ML. This means that you tear out a few of the ML speakers (center channel, 2.5" speakers), which would then disorient the ML amplifier and DSP function...or not using DSP function to it's potential. You are essentially destroying what the amplifier has set up to do. In other words, you will destroy the imaging and staging.
***IMO, there wasn't that much to destroy in the first place!***
IMO, i still think that Dynaudio + ML amplifier = you are not using Dynaudio to it's potential...thus, a waste of money to buy Dynaudio. Let's not even get into using the stock Pioneer syst***s amplifier to power Dynaudio. Go ask your local car audio shop about this...most will agree with me.
***Most local shops have the kids working on cars. Most of them won't even know who/what Dynaudio is, much less Levinson. Most haven't even worked on a high end Lexus. Most are not informed and are subject to the same market hype/babble that is constantly spread out there. If it looks "impressive on print or marketing, then it must be" mentality. Why do so many out there think Bose is high end? Marketing. I would dare say 98+% haven't even tried the options.***
If you want to upgrade, then upgrade the WHOLE system (aftermarket power-hungry speakers deserve a powerful amplifier), not just half-assed the upgrade. IMO.
Percy
10-23-05, 11:09 AM
#85
Lexus Test Driver
Guys/gals,
Listen to Percy. I say splurge for the Dynaudios if you can. My C70 has a factory dynaudio system... its AMAZING. Deep bass, nice highs, everything in between.
Listen to Percy. I say splurge for the Dynaudios if you can. My C70 has a factory dynaudio system... its AMAZING. Deep bass, nice highs, everything in between.
10-23-05, 12:29 PM
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Percy,
How hard is it to replace JUST the speakers in the IS? And when I say JUST, I mean JUST (not putting in the aftermarket crossovers). I would have to have a shop do it since I am clueless. All I know is that I spent a lot of money on upgrading my stereo in my old Accord (got an aftermarket amp, new speakers all around, etc.), and then when I sold it, I decided to have the shop take the amp out, but leave the upgraded speakers in. I was shocked when this was done that it sounded just as good as without the amp! And I didn't go with cheap stuff either (a/d/s amp, Boston's all around, etc.). So basically you are right that the speakers are the weakest link.
As for the IS, I want to go with ML and then replace the fronts with components and possible put a small sub in the back, or maybe upgrade the current sub. I saw what speakers you would recommend (Dynaudio), and was wondering if the shops could easily just replace the fronts with Dyn's with no problems. I assume this is easy stuff for them. Would it be necessary for them to use the Dynaudio crossover or could they just use the ML crossovers and simply drop the Dyn's in the current spots? What would be the pros and cons of this? I just want the install to be as simple and clean as possible, and don't want ANY speakers getting disabled or ANY part of the ML tweaking being disabled. I am worried that putting in Dynaudio's WITH the aftermarket crossovers would mean disabling the 2.5" mids in the ML system and losing the tuning of the ML system, which is tuned for their crossover frequencies. I just want the most kick *** speakers putting forth the sound.
Is this possible? Pros and cons? And what would the typical install be for what I want (i.e., EVERYTHING as close to stock as possible but with the best sound).
Oh and one last thing... If you don't want to spend the money on the Dynaudio's, what is the NEXT BEST THING in your opinion?
Thanks so much!
How hard is it to replace JUST the speakers in the IS? And when I say JUST, I mean JUST (not putting in the aftermarket crossovers). I would have to have a shop do it since I am clueless. All I know is that I spent a lot of money on upgrading my stereo in my old Accord (got an aftermarket amp, new speakers all around, etc.), and then when I sold it, I decided to have the shop take the amp out, but leave the upgraded speakers in. I was shocked when this was done that it sounded just as good as without the amp! And I didn't go with cheap stuff either (a/d/s amp, Boston's all around, etc.). So basically you are right that the speakers are the weakest link.
As for the IS, I want to go with ML and then replace the fronts with components and possible put a small sub in the back, or maybe upgrade the current sub. I saw what speakers you would recommend (Dynaudio), and was wondering if the shops could easily just replace the fronts with Dyn's with no problems. I assume this is easy stuff for them. Would it be necessary for them to use the Dynaudio crossover or could they just use the ML crossovers and simply drop the Dyn's in the current spots? What would be the pros and cons of this? I just want the install to be as simple and clean as possible, and don't want ANY speakers getting disabled or ANY part of the ML tweaking being disabled. I am worried that putting in Dynaudio's WITH the aftermarket crossovers would mean disabling the 2.5" mids in the ML system and losing the tuning of the ML system, which is tuned for their crossover frequencies. I just want the most kick *** speakers putting forth the sound.
Is this possible? Pros and cons? And what would the typical install be for what I want (i.e., EVERYTHING as close to stock as possible but with the best sound).
Oh and one last thing... If you don't want to spend the money on the Dynaudio's, what is the NEXT BEST THING in your opinion?
Thanks so much!
10-23-05, 08:24 PM
#87
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally Posted by yoyoniner
Percy,
How hard is it to replace JUST the speakers in the IS? And when I say JUST, I mean JUST (not putting in the aftermarket crossovers). I would have to have a shop do it since I am clueless. All I know is that I spent a lot of money on upgrading my stereo in my old Accord (got an aftermarket amp, new speakers all around, etc.), and then when I sold it, I decided to have the shop take the amp out, but leave the upgraded speakers in. I was shocked when this was done that it sounded just as good as without the amp! And I didn't go with cheap stuff either (a/d/s amp, Boston's all around, etc.). So basically you are right that the speakers are the weakest link.
***The tweet and midwoofer sizes are similar so that should give a bit of a break for the installers. Shouldn't be too hard, but as I mentioned before, I've never opened an IS350ML just yet...***
As for the IS, I want to go with ML and then replace the fronts with components and possible put a small sub in the back, or maybe upgrade the current sub. I saw what speakers you would recommend (Dynaudio), and was wondering if the shops could easily just replace the fronts with Dyn's with no problems. I assume this is easy stuff for them.
***A good shop should be able to do this easily. I still recommend that you get the tear down diagrams from the local dealership and do it yourself. You'd be surprised.***
Would it be necessary for them to use the Dynaudio crossover or could they just use the ML crossovers and simply drop the Dyn's in the current spots?
***ML, strangely enough, doesn't list the xover points. Shouldn't be a problem at all for the dyns to handle as they are designed for more of a gentle slope of 6db/oct. The ML stuff is probably, and I'm guessing on this, 12 or 18db/oct. BTW...it's much more difficult to make a speaker that will handle the advantages of a 6db/oct slope. Better transient response, much less ringing, all the good stuff. Speakers like the Rainbow Reference rely on a fairly complex crossover to offer a "patch job" due to the quality of the main driver. I've seen one of their xovers and it's MESSY. (Rainbow Platinum) The Dyns will handle a much wider range, in real life specs, than pretty much any other car audio (or for that matter, home audio) speaker that I've seen.***
What would be the pros and cons of this? I just want the install to be as simple and clean as possible, and don't want ANY speakers getting disabled or ANY part of the ML tweaking being disabled. I am worried that putting in Dynaudio's WITH the aftermarket crossovers would mean disabling the 2.5" mids in the ML system and losing the tuning of the ML system, which is tuned for their crossover frequencies. I just want the most kick *** speakers putting forth the sound.
***Here's where I need the feedback. Since I don't have the IS/ML, I'm wondering exactly what you CAN fit in the mid channel. It MAY be possible to drop in the Dyn MD140 midrange and take it out of it's casing. You're talking a midrange that has ultra ultra low distortion and with a 3 inch voice coil! So, it may be possible to do an all dyn setup, center channel included. That way you don't have to disable any of the speakers. I'll try calling my contact at Dyn during the week to see if you can pop it out of it's casing. If you can, a whole world of possibilities open up on installations. As for the xover points, I wouldn't worry about them too much. They were designed with the wierd ceramic (yuck) drivers in mind. The ceramic 2.5 btw, comes from Infinity - they were one of the first to use them, but it's all part of Harman International.***
Is this possible?
***It just might be, MD140 mid included. Have to actually try it though.***
Pros and cons? And what would the typical install be for what I want (i.e., EVERYTHING as close to stock as possible but with the best sound).
***Pros...expanded soundstage, better dynamics, better sound QUALITY...***
***Cons...might have to modify some stuff to get the speakers to drop in to keep it a stealth/factory look.***
Oh and one last thing... If you don't want to spend the money on the Dynaudio's, what is the NEXT BEST THING in your opinion?
***ADS, Focal, Diamond audio, CDT, Morel and a few others...IMO, they're a definite second to the Dyns though when it comes to being the ultimate SQ speaker. Notice that I didn't put Rainbow Reference in there...IMO, they're more hype with no real numbers to back them up. And after seeing their Rainbow Platinum crossover, it shows me that the driver technology isn't up to snuff. Needs a complex patchwork xover to make the raw driver sound good. Not my idea of fun.***
Thanks so much!
How hard is it to replace JUST the speakers in the IS? And when I say JUST, I mean JUST (not putting in the aftermarket crossovers). I would have to have a shop do it since I am clueless. All I know is that I spent a lot of money on upgrading my stereo in my old Accord (got an aftermarket amp, new speakers all around, etc.), and then when I sold it, I decided to have the shop take the amp out, but leave the upgraded speakers in. I was shocked when this was done that it sounded just as good as without the amp! And I didn't go with cheap stuff either (a/d/s amp, Boston's all around, etc.). So basically you are right that the speakers are the weakest link.
***The tweet and midwoofer sizes are similar so that should give a bit of a break for the installers. Shouldn't be too hard, but as I mentioned before, I've never opened an IS350ML just yet...***
As for the IS, I want to go with ML and then replace the fronts with components and possible put a small sub in the back, or maybe upgrade the current sub. I saw what speakers you would recommend (Dynaudio), and was wondering if the shops could easily just replace the fronts with Dyn's with no problems. I assume this is easy stuff for them.
***A good shop should be able to do this easily. I still recommend that you get the tear down diagrams from the local dealership and do it yourself. You'd be surprised.***
Would it be necessary for them to use the Dynaudio crossover or could they just use the ML crossovers and simply drop the Dyn's in the current spots?
***ML, strangely enough, doesn't list the xover points. Shouldn't be a problem at all for the dyns to handle as they are designed for more of a gentle slope of 6db/oct. The ML stuff is probably, and I'm guessing on this, 12 or 18db/oct. BTW...it's much more difficult to make a speaker that will handle the advantages of a 6db/oct slope. Better transient response, much less ringing, all the good stuff. Speakers like the Rainbow Reference rely on a fairly complex crossover to offer a "patch job" due to the quality of the main driver. I've seen one of their xovers and it's MESSY. (Rainbow Platinum) The Dyns will handle a much wider range, in real life specs, than pretty much any other car audio (or for that matter, home audio) speaker that I've seen.***
What would be the pros and cons of this? I just want the install to be as simple and clean as possible, and don't want ANY speakers getting disabled or ANY part of the ML tweaking being disabled. I am worried that putting in Dynaudio's WITH the aftermarket crossovers would mean disabling the 2.5" mids in the ML system and losing the tuning of the ML system, which is tuned for their crossover frequencies. I just want the most kick *** speakers putting forth the sound.
***Here's where I need the feedback. Since I don't have the IS/ML, I'm wondering exactly what you CAN fit in the mid channel. It MAY be possible to drop in the Dyn MD140 midrange and take it out of it's casing. You're talking a midrange that has ultra ultra low distortion and with a 3 inch voice coil! So, it may be possible to do an all dyn setup, center channel included. That way you don't have to disable any of the speakers. I'll try calling my contact at Dyn during the week to see if you can pop it out of it's casing. If you can, a whole world of possibilities open up on installations. As for the xover points, I wouldn't worry about them too much. They were designed with the wierd ceramic (yuck) drivers in mind. The ceramic 2.5 btw, comes from Infinity - they were one of the first to use them, but it's all part of Harman International.***
Is this possible?
***It just might be, MD140 mid included. Have to actually try it though.***
Pros and cons? And what would the typical install be for what I want (i.e., EVERYTHING as close to stock as possible but with the best sound).
***Pros...expanded soundstage, better dynamics, better sound QUALITY...***
***Cons...might have to modify some stuff to get the speakers to drop in to keep it a stealth/factory look.***
Oh and one last thing... If you don't want to spend the money on the Dynaudio's, what is the NEXT BEST THING in your opinion?
***ADS, Focal, Diamond audio, CDT, Morel and a few others...IMO, they're a definite second to the Dyns though when it comes to being the ultimate SQ speaker. Notice that I didn't put Rainbow Reference in there...IMO, they're more hype with no real numbers to back them up. And after seeing their Rainbow Platinum crossover, it shows me that the driver technology isn't up to snuff. Needs a complex patchwork xover to make the raw driver sound good. Not my idea of fun.***
Thanks so much!
Percy
10-23-05, 09:06 PM
#88
Originally Posted by Percy
Now THIS is a loaded subject. I'll try to keep it simple so others can't take it out of context, but they'll more than likely try.
YES, there is more data in DVD/DTS audio.
YES, there is more sampling.
NO- It (having DVD/DTS) doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it SOUND BETTER.
But what they (non audiophiles) doesn't really know is that DTS/DVD is USUALLY remastered to sound better.
Example. Eagles- Hell Freezes Over. They have a nice DTS/DVD format of this. Compare it to their CD release on a channel per channel basis on a high end player.
Non believers and naysayers...give it a try before you write back.
Percy
YES, there is more data in DVD/DTS audio.
YES, there is more sampling.
NO- It (having DVD/DTS) doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it SOUND BETTER.
But what they (non audiophiles) doesn't really know is that DTS/DVD is USUALLY remastered to sound better.
Example. Eagles- Hell Freezes Over. They have a nice DTS/DVD format of this. Compare it to their CD release on a channel per channel basis on a high end player.
Non believers and naysayers...give it a try before you write back.
Percy
10-24-05, 05:38 AM
#89
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Hey Percy,
Are you in Chicago? This may be too late but I will probably be getting an IS350 around January. If you want you can play around with it, install the speakers, and I'd pay you too... but that's a few months away. I'll let you know eventually... I hope by then we can find out if we can put a Dynaudio mid in there by then. That would be fantastic if we could! I wonder how long it will take the forum to figure out the exact speaker sizes and what is possible to drop in, including the front mids...
Also.... do you have any recommendations of stores in the Chicagoland area that I can go and listen/demo the Dynaudios, a/d/s, etc.?
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Are you in Chicago? This may be too late but I will probably be getting an IS350 around January. If you want you can play around with it, install the speakers, and I'd pay you too... but that's a few months away. I'll let you know eventually... I hope by then we can find out if we can put a Dynaudio mid in there by then. That would be fantastic if we could! I wonder how long it will take the forum to figure out the exact speaker sizes and what is possible to drop in, including the front mids...
Also.... do you have any recommendations of stores in the Chicagoland area that I can go and listen/demo the Dynaudios, a/d/s, etc.?
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Last edited by yoyoniner; 10-24-05 at 02:22 PM.
10-24-05, 04:12 PM
#90
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
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Sticker shock.....
OK, I will probably get jumped on for having this opinion, but I DID have sticker shock when I saw the price of the new IS350. Not on the base model of $36,000.....I actually was pleasantly surprised by that number, but the Nav package is ridiculous! It makes the car $43,000!! And that doesn't include the ML system that I would like. I was really hoping that I could get this car for under or around $40k. I bought my 2001 Audi A6 2.7T (with upgrades like the Bose system) for $42k and it is in the GS's class!