ES3

Thanks Picus! What if anything do you think about the possibility that SGM won't be remotely popular in say a few years down the road, when I may be hoping to upgrade to the coupe I suppose for resale, it's safter to go with black? Then again, I hate to buy ANYTHING with only "resale" in mind!

picus

I don't think there will be any appreciable difference in re-sale between SGM and black. Actually I think the only color they have on the current IS's that may effect re-sale down the line is that sage green color. I suspect that will be replaced next year.

Magmir

I also don't think resale of SGM will be any worse than the black. In fact, it will probably look newer than the black.

The only way you can go wrong w/ resale is desert sage as someone mentioned or worse yet, that gold color.

ES3

Do most black painted cars have the acrylic enamels mixed in the paint? Or do most put a clear coat on top of the black paint ie... 2 stage?

ES3

Congrats again on the purchase. Curious, how would you compare the color of your car to the Flint Mica on the GS?

flipside909

Here's how Flint Mica & Smoky Granite compare on a GS430 and IS350 respectively. Photo courtesy of Pinoychris....actually the camera was...but I took this shot...kinda hard to tell with the lighting but the Flint Mica has a bluish hue where as the SGM is more charcoal...even darker than GGP from the previous IS:



I will post my pics of the same cars/event tonight.

ES3

Great picture! Got any comparing the two in daylight? Which would you prefer between the two, SGM or Black Onyx?

picus

Most have a clear coat on top of the pigmented paint. Single stage paint is very uncommon now. The only two imports I can think of off the top of my head that are single stage are the black IS's and red Honda S2000's. Actually black S2000's might be too, I haven't detailed one in awhile so I can't recall. Either way, most factories are setup for two stage applications so single stage is getting more and more rare as it's becoming less cost effective.

Why do they do it? I don't know their specfic reasoning but single stage does have a couple advantages, mainly it usually leaves the factory with much less "orange peel", it can be color-sanded, and it's easier to touchup. It's also slightly thicker as a whole than the clear coat layer of two stage paint, meaning you can lose more of it and still be ok. The disadvantage are that it's a little more difficult to correct minor scratches on and it is slightly less durable (more prone to oxidization) over many years (I'm talking 15+ years in harsh conditions).

ES3

Wonder why they'd keep implementing single stage? Which technology has been around longer? Mixing--single stage? I know you said single stage is easier to touch up with paint, which is easier, if EITHER, to detail?

picus

Single stage has been around longer. Two stage is a relatively new (last 25 years) thing. I don't know why Lexus or Honda uses it, I can only assume that it's to reduce the amount of OP on the cars out of the factory. Clearly Lexus has the ability to do two stage black, so it's a choice to use single stage.

For detailing I think overall two stage is easier, since you have a clear coat to work with on top of the pigmented paint. However you have to be more careful with two stage since there is the danger of going through the clear coat, which would cause the pigmented coat to oxidize very quickly. Also, the reason touchups are easier on single stage is because there is no clear coat to match when you're touching up, but touchups are more rare than minor scratch/swirl repair, where two stage is easier.

Either way I wouldn't *not* buy a car because it was single stage. Actually being a detailer I'd like the idea of being able to color-sand it, which is impossible on two stage paint. Most folks won't do that, but I still don't think single or two stage should really impact the color decision.

For the record, I haven't worked on a black IS250/350 yet, so I haven't confirmed first hand that they are single stage, but other detailers have and since the IS300 black was it makes sense. I do know that IS300 black was very nice paint, so I can only presume that the IS250/350 black is too.

ES3

Thanks Picus. You are a WEALTH of info. I can see you're passionate about your craft!
Now I'll go back to my debate on the SGM vs. Black. BTW, from what you understand, how might Lexus create the SGM, do they mix several colors? Do they put down gray then add metallic? I'm curious as to why I sometimes see different colors than gray and black in the SGM pictures? Honestly, I don't care for the purple/blue/green hues I sometimes see, but since I mostly see a really cool dark metallic gray, that's why I'm still intrigued with SGM!

picus

I'd have to work on SGM to be sure but I think it's just one layer of metallic pigment. They mix the flake in witht he colored paint (which is a mix of several colors) and then spray a couple layers, then do the clear. I think the reason you see "shades" in SGM is the flake (SGM has an absolutely massive amount of flake), but I could be wrong, it may have another layer of pigment under it. There are other colors that definitely have two layers of pigment though, for example GFM looks like it's a light blue pigmented layer followed by a white metallic then clear. Actually you see that a lot - all Acura black cars are a layer of royal blue pigment followed by black then a clear, which is why they often look blue-ish in the sun.

ES3

What other colors besides say black and silver may be in the SGM? I realize on the Toyota Brass really know.

picus

I think the flake are metallic silver, so the possibilities of the hues you might see reflected in them is kind of endless. It might have a lot to do with the light you see it in, which I suspect was their intention.

ES3

10-4, and in most metallic paints, is the metallic flake simply mixed in the base paint? Or added after the base paint is applied?