Back from Tast of Lexus- IS350 huge dissapointment
11-07-05, 02:31 AM
#16
i went to the event as well and here's my view of it
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186212
it includes the is250 and is350. short read
in short though, sorry but i wasn't impressed
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186212
it includes the is250 and is350. short read
in short though, sorry but i wasn't impressed
11-07-05, 08:28 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by chiawei
Took the wife out to alameda point to drive the IS350. Have to say that this car is a huge dissapointment. Lexus took a gigantic step backward in driving dynamic with the IS. My 2001 IS was fun to drive, easy tossable, and give driver a real sense of confident in pushing the car. This is simply not the case anymore with IS350.
My wife wanted to checked out the IS350 because she is still not sold on the 330i and need to test drive the IS350. So in order for her to feel the difference between the two. She and i went with 330i 1st. The 330i was fun to drive. Excellent steering response. Good power. The chassis is so willing to be tossed around. This car is simply fun to drive. My wife was extremely impressed by the driving dynamic of 330i. The car simply gives driver so much confidence on the course that lexus setup. The steering is laser like precisel with great steering response. As speed builds up the steering tightens. Just what you expect from a sports sedan. The brake is excellent with great feedback.
Then come the IS350. The interior is nice and warm. Material is good but not great. The car I drove has 785 miles on it, unlike other lexus this one has a rattle from the passenger door (probably an isolate case). However, there is a huge problem i have with IS350's interior. The steering wheel is way too thin and offers very poor grip. For what suppose to be a performance car in the lineup, the thin steering wheel simply does not cut it.
Now the driving impression. I really don't know where to begin. This car is so confused on its purpose. Let's start with the good. The engine and transmission on the IS350 is excellent. There is no doubt about it. The power comes on quickly and ferociously. In a good driving dynamic car, this is a good thing. But for IS350 this is an negative. The problem with IS350 is that the driving dynamic is simply horrible. The steering is way over boosted and never tightens as the speed builds up. It is simply way too light thus making the steering response totally numb. As a driver you simply have no clue where you are heading. There is way too much body roll, the suspension is way too soft. So when the power comes, the driver simply has no clue where the car is going. The 330i feels so much confident and poised through the turns, and apply the power, the driver can confidently power out of curve. With IS350, the power come on quickly, but with lousy steering and body roll. The driver simply have no clue where the car is going. You are just fumbling through out the turn. This car is just awful to drive. My wife after test driving the IS350 was totally turned off by it. According to her, the IS350 is simply awful to drive. She has no clue where the car is going. The steering is way too soft. She feels like she is losing control through out the course. The car just floats way too much. Her exact comment was that she has no clue why lexus would even bring the 330i sport in the same test. The IS350 was a totally embarassment.
So quick scorecard.
Engine- A+. The 3.5 V6 is powerful, quiet and smooth. Excellent engine.
Transmission- A. Again smooth and quick reaction.
Chassis/suspension- F. Suspension is way too soft for a sport sedan. The chassis is tuned way too much toward comfort. Body roll is abundant through out the turn. This car simply does not like to be tossed around.
Steering response- F. Too much boost through the speed range. The steering never tightens when speeds builds up. At higher speed turns, the steering wheel is so light to the touch it is down right scary. The steering response is so vague. As a driver, you simply have no clue which way your tires is turned and how much. This is not what a performance sport sedan should be.
Brake- A. The brake's stopping power is good.
Brake response- D. Lexus has copied mercedes SBC unlinear response verbatim. The brake response is not linear and way too agressive. 330i's brake response is far more linear and easier to modulate.
Overall vehicle dynamic- F. This car is all engine. The powertrain simply overshadows the chassis, the suspension, and steering. Through out the test drive. I felt that the rest of the car simply is overmatched by excellent power train. It seems like lexus spend all of the resource on desiging an excellent engine and transmission and has nothing else for the car.
Interior packaing- A. The dash is clean and legible. The navigation screen is good. All the buttons are exactly where you expect it to be. Good material inside as well. The leather and wood are decent as well. For $45k this should be expected.
Space- D. The room up front is not bad, but not great either. As a driver i felt a little tight. The windshield it too close to the driver and give a sense of tightness. The 330i on the other hand feels much more open up front. The back on the IS350 is simply not acceptable. It is simply too small for it to be useful.
Oveall interior- B. This is simply due to the lousy backseat .
Overall- D-.
This is a huge dissapointment from lexus. My old 2001 IS300 was fun to drive. Even though it is little under power. The car is so tossable around the corner. The old IS300 gives driver more confidence in driving it hard. It was just fun to drive. Even though the old IS300's dash is little too busy and has not useable backseat. The vehicle dynamic made up for all those short coming.
Fast foward to 2005. The power is now there. The engine is great. But what happened to the vehcile dynamic? Lousy steering response. Too soft tuning of chassis and suspension. This car is no longer fun to drive. The car no longer gives driver the confidence to push it hard. This is no longer a fun car.
I really don't understand what lexus is aiming to achieve with the IS. IS is suppose to be a small RWD sedan with excellent handling and performance. For straightline performance, IS did suceed on that front. But handling is simply not there. If lexus is going to take that away, why bother with the IS. Put the 3.5V6 in the ES and call it a day. The ES is roomier and probably will do just as bad as IS did in turns. For $45k loaded for an IS350, the ES is a much better buy with more usable space at $38k.
To be honest. I really can't think of a car that has this bad driving dynamic in this class. This is just a horrible car with great power. Lexus killed the IS. This car is no longer fun to drive. Yes, lexus did improve the cheap IS300 interior by a ton. The engine got improved by light year. But there is more to a car other than a good interior and powertrain. If lexus is serious in taking a shot a 3 series they need to do a better job. The new IS is simply a small car with no useable rear and good at only straight line performance. I am real dissappointed. They took a little fun car and killed it. Had lexus kept the IS300 driving dynamic and simply stuffed this great 3.5 V6 in it. That car would be a winner. As it stands, this car really blows.
My wife wanted to checked out the IS350 because she is still not sold on the 330i and need to test drive the IS350. So in order for her to feel the difference between the two. She and i went with 330i 1st. The 330i was fun to drive. Excellent steering response. Good power. The chassis is so willing to be tossed around. This car is simply fun to drive. My wife was extremely impressed by the driving dynamic of 330i. The car simply gives driver so much confidence on the course that lexus setup. The steering is laser like precisel with great steering response. As speed builds up the steering tightens. Just what you expect from a sports sedan. The brake is excellent with great feedback.
Then come the IS350. The interior is nice and warm. Material is good but not great. The car I drove has 785 miles on it, unlike other lexus this one has a rattle from the passenger door (probably an isolate case). However, there is a huge problem i have with IS350's interior. The steering wheel is way too thin and offers very poor grip. For what suppose to be a performance car in the lineup, the thin steering wheel simply does not cut it.
Now the driving impression. I really don't know where to begin. This car is so confused on its purpose. Let's start with the good. The engine and transmission on the IS350 is excellent. There is no doubt about it. The power comes on quickly and ferociously. In a good driving dynamic car, this is a good thing. But for IS350 this is an negative. The problem with IS350 is that the driving dynamic is simply horrible. The steering is way over boosted and never tightens as the speed builds up. It is simply way too light thus making the steering response totally numb. As a driver you simply have no clue where you are heading. There is way too much body roll, the suspension is way too soft. So when the power comes, the driver simply has no clue where the car is going. The 330i feels so much confident and poised through the turns, and apply the power, the driver can confidently power out of curve. With IS350, the power come on quickly, but with lousy steering and body roll. The driver simply have no clue where the car is going. You are just fumbling through out the turn. This car is just awful to drive. My wife after test driving the IS350 was totally turned off by it. According to her, the IS350 is simply awful to drive. She has no clue where the car is going. The steering is way too soft. She feels like she is losing control through out the course. The car just floats way too much. Her exact comment was that she has no clue why lexus would even bring the 330i sport in the same test. The IS350 was a totally embarassment.
So quick scorecard.
Engine- A+. The 3.5 V6 is powerful, quiet and smooth. Excellent engine.
Transmission- A. Again smooth and quick reaction.
Chassis/suspension- F. Suspension is way too soft for a sport sedan. The chassis is tuned way too much toward comfort. Body roll is abundant through out the turn. This car simply does not like to be tossed around.
Steering response- F. Too much boost through the speed range. The steering never tightens when speeds builds up. At higher speed turns, the steering wheel is so light to the touch it is down right scary. The steering response is so vague. As a driver, you simply have no clue which way your tires is turned and how much. This is not what a performance sport sedan should be.
Brake- A. The brake's stopping power is good.
Brake response- D. Lexus has copied mercedes SBC unlinear response verbatim. The brake response is not linear and way too agressive. 330i's brake response is far more linear and easier to modulate.
Overall vehicle dynamic- F. This car is all engine. The powertrain simply overshadows the chassis, the suspension, and steering. Through out the test drive. I felt that the rest of the car simply is overmatched by excellent power train. It seems like lexus spend all of the resource on desiging an excellent engine and transmission and has nothing else for the car.
Interior packaing- A. The dash is clean and legible. The navigation screen is good. All the buttons are exactly where you expect it to be. Good material inside as well. The leather and wood are decent as well. For $45k this should be expected.
Space- D. The room up front is not bad, but not great either. As a driver i felt a little tight. The windshield it too close to the driver and give a sense of tightness. The 330i on the other hand feels much more open up front. The back on the IS350 is simply not acceptable. It is simply too small for it to be useful.
Oveall interior- B. This is simply due to the lousy backseat .
Overall- D-.
This is a huge dissapointment from lexus. My old 2001 IS300 was fun to drive. Even though it is little under power. The car is so tossable around the corner. The old IS300 gives driver more confidence in driving it hard. It was just fun to drive. Even though the old IS300's dash is little too busy and has not useable backseat. The vehicle dynamic made up for all those short coming.
Fast foward to 2005. The power is now there. The engine is great. But what happened to the vehcile dynamic? Lousy steering response. Too soft tuning of chassis and suspension. This car is no longer fun to drive. The car no longer gives driver the confidence to push it hard. This is no longer a fun car.
I really don't understand what lexus is aiming to achieve with the IS. IS is suppose to be a small RWD sedan with excellent handling and performance. For straightline performance, IS did suceed on that front. But handling is simply not there. If lexus is going to take that away, why bother with the IS. Put the 3.5V6 in the ES and call it a day. The ES is roomier and probably will do just as bad as IS did in turns. For $45k loaded for an IS350, the ES is a much better buy with more usable space at $38k.
To be honest. I really can't think of a car that has this bad driving dynamic in this class. This is just a horrible car with great power. Lexus killed the IS. This car is no longer fun to drive. Yes, lexus did improve the cheap IS300 interior by a ton. The engine got improved by light year. But there is more to a car other than a good interior and powertrain. If lexus is serious in taking a shot a 3 series they need to do a better job. The new IS is simply a small car with no useable rear and good at only straight line performance. I am real dissappointed. They took a little fun car and killed it. Had lexus kept the IS300 driving dynamic and simply stuffed this great 3.5 V6 in it. That car would be a winner. As it stands, this car really blows.
) and I wouldn't hesitate to get one.
11-07-05, 09:37 AM
#18
arrghhh, i hate reading comments from insecure Lexus fan-boys 
no one forced Lexus to include a BMW 3 series in their Taste of Lexus event...nor were they forced to include a more sports car oriented road coarse in the event
they did this because they wanted people to COMPARE the two, as SPORTS sedans....i can't stand hearing the argument that the IS350 is not intended to be a sports car, but more of LUXURY car...if Lexus themselves felt this way, why the hell do you think they included a twisty road course, as opposed to just one long straightaway, that solely alllowed the IS350 to be experienced at smooth steady highway speeds ?...and why would they have CHOSEN the BMW to compare themselves to ?!?!
ok, so some say the BMW is not as "luxurious" as the Lexus...fine, that comment doesn't seem to bug anyone....and some (most) say the Lexus doesn't handle as well as the BMW....so why does everyone go nuts & start defending the IS when such a comment is made?
if this was a BMW event, and BMW chose to compare themselves to the IS, i can see how some insecure Lexus fan-boys could TRY to whine that this was not a fair comparison, or that Lexus had no intent of competing against BMW....but for god's sake, this was LEXUS's own event, and they chose the car they wanted to be compared to, and even what circumstances they intended the car to be driven under
i'm still trying get over the comments by someone implying that large cars don't need to handle well
no one forced Lexus to include a BMW 3 series in their Taste of Lexus event...nor were they forced to include a more sports car oriented road coarse in the event
they did this because they wanted people to COMPARE the two, as SPORTS sedans....i can't stand hearing the argument that the IS350 is not intended to be a sports car, but more of LUXURY car...if Lexus themselves felt this way, why the hell do you think they included a twisty road course, as opposed to just one long straightaway, that solely alllowed the IS350 to be experienced at smooth steady highway speeds ?...and why would they have CHOSEN the BMW to compare themselves to ?!?!
ok, so some say the BMW is not as "luxurious" as the Lexus...fine, that comment doesn't seem to bug anyone....and some (most) say the Lexus doesn't handle as well as the BMW....so why does everyone go nuts & start defending the IS when such a comment is made?
if this was a BMW event, and BMW chose to compare themselves to the IS, i can see how some insecure Lexus fan-boys could TRY to whine that this was not a fair comparison, or that Lexus had no intent of competing against BMW....but for god's sake, this was LEXUS's own event, and they chose the car they wanted to be compared to, and even what circumstances they intended the car to be driven under
i'm still trying get over the comments by someone implying that large cars don't need to handle well
11-07-05, 09:42 AM
#19
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Gian
After reading this review, I think I'm totally convinced the IS is the perfect car for me. He gives it minus points for comfort-oriented supsension, I suggest otherwise.
Now, I know I'm not in for a harsh ride. Phew.
Now, I know I'm not in for a harsh ride. Phew.
I was hoping that lexus would spare the IS driving dynamic in their relentless pursuit of perfection....(actually should be relentless pursuit of isolation).
The GS was actually not bad, better than E class in terms of dynamic. But i am totally loss for words on the IS. It just seems to me that who ever designed the IS simply forgot that a car is to be driven not the other way around. This is espeically true if you want to position it as your performance model in the lineup.
What really bugged me was during the test, lexus put on pilot sports on the IS to enhance grip. But it still performed poorly.
After market spring and shock should improve the body roll quiet a bit. But there is nothing you can do with that power steering boost. The steering wheel probably can be changed for a much thicker one for better grip. That would solve two problems. However, the steering response can't be solved.
I still don't get it how lexus could not duplicate BMW's steering. This is 2nd generation. Lexus should really show some effort on this.
However, I am very impressed by the engnine and transmission. The power transfer to the wheels arrives instantly. This is a major area that IS really shines.
11-07-05, 09:50 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
I would rather have the Lexus because it looks better is more refined faster and has better quality plus its still alot cheaper. Aother thing you should consider the cars at taste of lexus are pre production cars thats why there was the rattle and why the suspension flet the way it did. When i went to the launch party the car handled way better. So go to a dealer and then tell us how you like it.
11-07-05, 09:53 AM
#21
Lexus Connoisseur
Come on guys...everyone is nice here and everyone is entitled to their opinion. No need for fanboy calling or anything...everyone has a right to agree or disagree. We're all adults here! 
11-07-05, 10:07 AM
#22
Lexus Connoisseur
To add to this....I agree the IS350's handling isn't that great going through cones. But then again, everyday driving isn't driving through cones as fast as you can or stomping on the brakes from full speed either. The 330i is the clear winner in the handling department. I'm not a fan of the BMW ergonomics but I'm more about all around comfort/lux and performance. The 330i leans definitely on the sport side and the IS350 is there somewhere in the middle more biased toward luxury than sport. (The IS350 Sport package is much more in the middle between sport and lux). I would still pick the IS350 in the end since it would suit my needs better.
11-07-05, 10:11 AM
#23
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Gian
I don't understand large, overpowered cars having praised handling capabilities when they're too big to begin with. The bigger sedans are obviously meant to cater the passengers and driver altogether; so naturally I'm inclined to believe the LS shines in this area alone (with regards to quietude and smoothness, among others). You'd probably beg to differ, but pushing those cars to their limits is completely assinine to me (especially when you're attempting to dodge traffic ).
I don't even understand the enjoyment one can reap by "tossing" a car around. I might seem a little **** for my age, but I love the ease of driving Toyota automobilies as opposed to the strenuous steering of a go-kart a la BMW. Yeah, there's a certain connection one might feel with the road, but putting strain on my arms for long periods of time isn't my idea of "fun" or "the ultimate driving experience," if you will.
BMWs aren't bumpy, intolerable vehicles, per se. The 3-series, in particular, just doesn't offer the level of refinement and luxury (which I value more than handling, needless to say) the IS has, or any Lexus for that matter. Handling goes to the 3 series as performance goes to the IS. But throw in qualitiy, reliability and comfort, I would never even think of BMW.
In fact, the only emergency situation I can think of is adding further back pain from nasty BMW rides. Definitely comfort over handling, for me.
I don't even understand the enjoyment one can reap by "tossing" a car around. I might seem a little **** for my age, but I love the ease of driving Toyota automobilies as opposed to the strenuous steering of a go-kart a la BMW. Yeah, there's a certain connection one might feel with the road, but putting strain on my arms for long periods of time isn't my idea of "fun" or "the ultimate driving experience," if you will.
BMWs aren't bumpy, intolerable vehicles, per se. The 3-series, in particular, just doesn't offer the level of refinement and luxury (which I value more than handling, needless to say) the IS has, or any Lexus for that matter. Handling goes to the 3 series as performance goes to the IS. But throw in qualitiy, reliability and comfort, I would never even think of BMW.
In fact, the only emergency situation I can think of is adding further back pain from nasty BMW rides. Definitely comfort over handling, for me.
2. Lexus is for refinement and luxury. But they are not aiming for that with IS. IS is benchmarked with 330i, not C350. In that respect it failed miserably. Nobody asked lexus to use 330i as benchmark, lexus did that on their own. They simply embarassed themselve yesterday.
Anyone who drove the 330i/IS350 back to back were totally unimpressed by the IS350. It was that bad hearing comments from other test driver. In addition, there were so many driver that lost control and hitting cones on the IS350 and has to be booted off. The guy ( i think his name is duncan) has to kept on telling driver to drive it slowly.
Another thing that really stood out for me was that lexus ended up staged a run between IS350 and 330i (i guess after a lot of dissappointed test driver). The IS350 and 330i was pitted together for a straight line run and u-turn and another straight run back to start point.
Yes, lexus did prove that 330i will be dusted in straight. But 330i catched up so quickly during that u-turn (the is350 turn was widers and slower). By the time both car exit the u-turn the 330i was on the tail of IS350 (after Is350 put about 3 cars length on the 330i at straight).
Again, lexus aimed at 330i with IS not C350. So i would expect it be tossable.
11-07-05, 10:17 AM
#24
Originally Posted by flipside909
Come on guys...everyone is nice here and everyone is entitled to their opinion. No need for fanboy calling or anything...everyone has a right to agree or disagree. We're all adults here!
don't make me close this thread
11-07-05, 10:21 AM
#25
Originally Posted by flipside909
....I agree the IS350's handling isn't that great going through cones. But then again, everyday driving isn't driving through cones as fast as you can or stomping on the brakes from full speed either...
my point is that this was Lexus' own event, and they controlled what was compared & how it was compared...no, "everyday driving isn't driving through cones as fast as you can or stomping on the brakes from full speed", but obviously Lexus felt that the IS was competent at this, or they wouldn't have set up the event as it was
it just would be nice if people could give some honest criticism of the IS, without having people blindly defending it with lame excuses
11-07-05, 10:24 AM
#26
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by Lexus3oi
arrghhh, i hate reading comments from insecure Lexus fan-boys
arrghhh I hate reading name calling. Knock it off please, this has been a fairly measured discussion and like Flip says keep it an adult conversation focused on observations. Not everyone is going to like the car, nor should they.
Stop calling other member's logic 'lame excuses' for example.... use fact and your own observation rather than dropping the level of discussion down.
If you have any further discussion on this subject PM me and let this thread get back on topic.
11-07-05, 10:27 AM
#27
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MSMLexIS
I would rather have the Lexus because it looks better is more refined faster and has better quality plus its still alot cheaper. Aother thing you should consider the cars at taste of lexus are pre production cars thats why there was the rattle and why the suspension flet the way it did. When i went to the launch party the car handled way better. So go to a dealer and then tell us how you like it.
Not only that. I don't think lexus would let a poor assembled car or not equipped properly car to be used at the test. Unlike a lot of test driver. I actually spend the time to even check what tires that the IS and 330i used for the test. Lexus did additional work on the car as evident by the excellent grip tires (pilot sport- excellent grip on dry surface) they used on IS350.
When i went to dealer couple weeks ago to check out the IS, the stock tire was not pilot sport. So in someway, lexus did some twisting on the cars for the test.
The rattle was minor and it from passenger door and i don't belive this is a norm from lexus. So i pretty much dismissed it.
11-07-05, 10:30 AM
#28
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by chiawei
I don't thnk the cars are pre-production cars. The IS350 that i drove only has 785 miles on it. The alameda event is not one of the earlier one either.
11-07-05, 10:34 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
It's a known fact by now that the BMW 3-series is the car to get if driving dynamics and fun is your #1 goal.
If you like to still have good dynamics but not necessarily the 'best', but want a bit of extra acceleration, much better comfort, and a much better rep for reliability, than the IS is the way to go.
Personally the 3-series is the car I'd rather lease or rent, the IS is the car I'd rather buy and make mine for years to come.
If you like to still have good dynamics but not necessarily the 'best', but want a bit of extra acceleration, much better comfort, and a much better rep for reliability, than the IS is the way to go.
Personally the 3-series is the car I'd rather lease or rent, the IS is the car I'd rather buy and make mine for years to come.
11-07-05, 10:39 AM
#30
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by Lexus3oi
my point is that this was Lexus' own event, and they controlled what was compared & how it was compared...no, "everyday driving isn't driving through cones as fast as you can or stomping on the brakes from full speed", but obviously Lexus felt that the IS was competent at this, or they wouldn't have set up the event as it was