Threxx

I think all Lexus dealerships should keep an IS on hand for customers to keep overnight if they're serious about buying and already have been approved for the loan or whatever (if necessary). That's how Audi ended up leasing me the 06 A4 I just got. I really wanted the IS but it was just too damn expensive per month. Audi had a great lease deal advertised and so I went in and looked at it. I wasn't completely sold but was going to think about it. Before I walked out they asked me to take the keys and take it home for the night... that's what sold me. Once I had some seat time in the car in a more 'familiar' situation instead of just driving it around the block at a dealership.

Great sales tactic. GM knows it too because occasionally they have promotions where they'll give you a gift certificate to a restaurant if you'll drive one of their new cars home for the night.

LeslieRC

I enjoyed your reviews. One question - have you tested an `05.5 or `06 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro? I ask because I purchased an `05.5 to serve as my daily driver (the other cars are an `04 SC430 and an `04 GX470) and, in short, I absolutely love driving the A4. Using the Tiptronic gearbox, acceleration and response are excellent. I have the sport suspension and the handling and feel of the car are a blast. If you've ever driven the `05.5 or `06 A4, I'm wondering what you think of that car in comparison to the IS250/350.

Threxx

The one I got was an 06 A4 2.0T w/ 6-speed manual, sunroof/leather package, 17" wheels, optional metallic silver paint, headlight washers, etc. Cost me ~$380/month with nothing down at all except the first month's payment and a small deposit.

It's a lot of fun to drive... it was a no brainer to lease with that deal, but I'd never buy one just because of their reliability reputation (bad). But just 'renting' it for 2 years and beating on it with all maintenance included under warranty ain't too bad!

I've got an APR chip on the way to boost it up to 241hp/292tq.

GSpeed

Here is some more on the subject from the E90 forum.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912

Bean

iTrader: (1)

Completely FALSE. You're using your bias for 'well handling' cars to imagine that everyone feels the same way. Some people don't want flat-cornering and a stiffer ride. You may not think it; but the 3-series STILL has a stiff ride when compared with other sport sedans. Its not STIFF speaking directly; but relatively it IS. You might like it, many others don't.

I bench quite a bit over 95lbs and I'll tell you the BMW is MORE strenuous to drive. It takes more effort. Sure its not very much effort at all. But when you drive a LUXURY car; its supposed to be very easy to drive with almost no effort at all.

Which LS did you ride in? There's a reason its labeled the best luxury car for under $100k. Again your bias clouds your mind... you can't comprehend people would rather NOT feel the road on their way to work or home than going around some high speed turn ***** to the wall.

I think you're in the wrong forum. This is CLUBLEXUS. Lexus owners like luxury, thats the main reason of buying the cars.

You might have been on enough car forums, but you havent been around long enough to understand on those car forums, the members don't look for the same cars as you or any of us. We all want something a little bit different. Its called opinion and preference. Do you know what that is?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Think BMW might have? Uh, hey fanboy, BMW has SERIOUS reliability problems. Go look at Consumer Reports and see how many of their vehicles are on the LEAST reliable list.
And free maintenance? It better be. But that doesnt offset the fact that the car will be in the shop.... cant drive your car while its in the shop can you? Nope, didnt think so.

To the original poster:

I think you SERIOUSLY overstate the handling of the IS vs the 3-series. You're not a racecar driver, and neither car is a racecar. Sure the 3-series beats it in handling feel; but numebrs-wise they are very close. Except in acceleration of course. Why would you go ***** to the wall with your NEW car? You itching to get into a wreck? ok ok I'm joking here...

But the fact remains, is you will NEVER push the 3-series to the point where it will go beyond what the IS350 will do. Don't you or your wife get any delusions of grandeur about it either.

spwolf

hello to all the BMW fans, how are you doing today? Feel bad when Lexus passes you on the street? Make sure you bring your copy of Car and Driver! :-)

Handling this and that, you would think nothing else can take turns but an BMW, feeling the road is greatly over rated and feeling does not mean heavy freaking steering. Plenty of people like IS350's handling better than BMW's, as witnessed in other threads in the forums...

Threxx

LOL... Anyone who thinks the ride quality and noise level in the 7-series and S-class is as good as the LS430, is off their rocker. Even if you can't tell by driving them (somehow I doubt anyone who has made that comment has driven all three or if they have they must be biased as can possibly be)... go read the NVH readings (dB meter, shock meter, etc) in the current day magazines or read what they have to say about the cars.

Sure the 7-series is a lot more fun to drive, and sure the S-class has a ton more gadgets, but they're both quite a bit less reliable and quite a bit more 'edgy' in their driving characteristic.. something a lot of people don't see as a "plus"

And yeah free maintenance and warranty will help you out in the first few years, but what about after that? If you'd sell it before the warranty ran out then great, I have no problem with your train of thought... but if you keep it after then and honestly expect not to be at risk for some seriously high dollar repair bills in a 7 series or S class, you're nuts.

Aren't the 7 and S considerably more expensive than the LS anyway? From what I've heard the LS is getting an all new design is less than a year or so, right? Including an extended wheelbase version that's probably more in line with the 7 and S in price and size?

Like I've mentioned before, I am now driving an 06 Audi A4 and I like the IS quite a bit more. Much nicer interior, much more comfortable ride, better powertrain, nicer features, etc. But the Audi was considerably better in terms of lease rate pricing, and does handle quite a bit better in my experience. Personally while I like a sporty car, I do not prefer to sacrafice ride quality and road noise for it when I'm buying a luxury brand car - give me something like a Corvette and it'll eat the 3-series for lunch in handling, response, acceleration, etc, etc but ride way worse. In the Corvette's case I don't blame it... it's supposed to be a sports/muscle car and nothing else and it does it VERY well for the price.

With the 3-series I don't necessarily 'blame' it for being so sport-oriented... I just realize that it's aiming at a different niche than the IS or TL or G35. The G35 probably took the most direct aim at the 3-series so far. The IS is aiming at the 3-series' sales figures but is not trying to 'be' a 3-series, either. Lexus became the number 1 auto manufacturer by selling 'perfect' cars in terms of quality, durability, engineering, comfort, utility, etc... not the fastest/sportiest cars. If I were them I wouldn't stray too far from that formula.

Lexus3oi

again, doesn't Lexus market the IS as a SPORTS sedan ?!?!

oh, ok, now i see when it's appropriate to use certain terms... gotcha

Threxx

Lexus has always marketed the IS as a blend of luxury and sport, and the ES as 'pure' luxury.

BMW doesn't even try to pretend their 3-series car is luxurious... it's not. (Neither is my new A4). But then again for an all out 'sports sedan' like the 3-series, getting smoked by the IS350 which costs less to boot, in the 1/4-mile, sure seems pretty silly.

Let's not even get started on the stone-age interior design.

Faraaz23

I just wanted to address some issues other people have posted in this thread.

About the free BMW Maintenance.... thats a great thing to have along with the warranty... but many people in this country are VERY busy... working at least 60-80 hours a week, if not more. Consequently, being able to take even 30-45 minutes to drop off your car and pick it up at a dealer, is not even an option for some people. Even as a full-time student, it was very difficult for me to find time in my day to go battle traffic and go well out of my way to take my Volvo for repairs every month or two. I'd find myself driving a car with the dash lit up like a christmas tree for weeks simply because I had too full of a schedule to be able to bother with it. On top of it, I've yet to see any dealer, even our coveted lexus dealers, who have a loaner car available everytime... especially on shorter notice. In that case, you are stuck finding alternative means of transportation. In addition, many people like to get their money out of a car, and like to keep it 8-10 years. I think most people here will agree that generally, a 7yeard old Lexus requires less visits to the dealer than a 7 yeard old BMW. So in short, I'd say that free maintenance DOES NOT alleviate "any" reliability concerns you may have.

And the other issue I wanted to discuss was that many times when I see the IS comapred to 3-series, or GS to 5-series..... people often say "get a nice set of coilovers and it'll fix the problem." However, I believe you need to compare apples to apples. If you are going to compare an IS with a $2000 set of race coilovers... compare it to the 3-series with the same quality of race suspension on it. Now I've yet to see anyone compare two cars like this, but I'd be comfortable questioning whether indeed a tuned IS would handle as well as a tuned 3-series on a track. The reason I bring this up is, some people do not like modding the cars. Thats why I think we should compare stock to stock, or modded to modded. If you have a leased car for example, its a lot of pain and time to modify back to original parts when the lease is done. And I do not think a set of coilovers and sways will give the car the same type of feedback that people enjoy in BMW's.

Gian

Wow, I had no idea I'd generate this much response. Bean and Threxx pretty much covered the rationale of my luxury over handling bias, and I stand FIRM on what I said about the senselessness in bigger cars with better handling. Quite an oxymoron, I say.

Threxx

Well since you brought it up, for what it's worth I think it was the 2003 model year that JD Power released their latest long term quality surveys and noted that the average seven year old 1996 LS400 was actually predicted to have fewer repairs required than the then brand new just off the showroom floor 2003 BMW 7-series.

If that doesn't set up a good perspective on the differences I don't know what does!

chiawei

No it's not. You are simply assuming that 3 series has stiff ride. When it really does not. Even with sports package on the E90, the rides on the E90 is still quiet nice.

In addition, the problem with your argument is that IS is aimed at performance not luxury smooth ride. That's why lexus choose 330i as benchmark. This is choice that lexus made to bench mark. So IS350 is a direct competitor to 330i.

The problem is that IS is not easier to drive. Numb/overboosted steering requires more effort and driver focus to drive it safely. In this sense, the IS is actually harder to drive. The driver needs to pay constant attention to where the car is going. In fact my wife's comment was that the 330i was much easier to drive and she was in total control at entire time. On the IS, both she and i felt that we need to pay more attention to what the car is doing, because the numb steering and soft suspension made the IS so difficult to control.

Low effort does not mean that you need to have no effort steering at highspeed. This is a major no no. Safety comes 1st, the IS's steering gives driver no confidence what so ever at decent speed or above. This has nothing to do with luxury. Moreover, the 3 series is not strenous to driver. PERIOD.

Luxury does not mean you sacrifice safety over it. End of the day the IS350 steering is way too loose, same holds true for its chassis and suspension tuning. This is not luxury or smooth ride we are talking about. This is basic need of safety.

Again, you are way too biased.
Depends on which report you look, BMW did very well on the JD power associates long term reliability.

Having owned 4 BMW, I can say thus far I had no mechanical issues at all. In fact, BMW mechanical are extremely reliable.


Again, you are too lexus biased.

1. I do track frequently on my car. And that's why my M5 is for.

2. Neither car is a race car. However, i choose handling/safety over luxury. The simple fact is that IS350 steering is way too numb, suspension too soft. This car simply drive horribly. The engine way overpower the chassis and rest of the car. In fact this car is dangerous to drive in twisty. Unless we are driving on straight road every where you go, or we never have to swerve to avoid accident, then your post make sense. The fact is that with too much power and softly tuned chassis/suspension. The IS is simply not safe and require more effor to drive.

I don't expect to track the 330i or IS350, since this is my wife's car. However, we have no delusions what so ever. My wife knows nothing about cars. When she got off the IS350 and see her reaction, the answer is clear. IS350 simply handles way too lousy and requires way too much effort to keep it under control.

The funny thing is that everyone that went to the events yesterday after driving both IS and 330i all commented that 330i were simply more fun, more sercure to drive. The fact of matter is that there were more driver that lost control on the IS350 on the course than 330i.

Overstate? I don't think so. Every test so far has pointed this out. I can understand why 330i despite failed to complete the C&D test and still beat IS350. Simply put, the 330i chassis is more willing and capable. 330i simply outshines IS350.

chiawei

That's put it this way.

I can buy a $2000 Civic. Put in a H22A and turbo it. I would probably outgun IS350 through out the speed range. So what is the point of being able to outgun in the straight?

Why spend $45k to drive a car that only does well in straight. If we are only looking for a straight line performance, I can buy a avalon with same 3.5 V6 add an after market force induction. I will out run the IS350. Heck, i can buy a pontiac GTO and super charge it and kill pretty much on straight line.

Feeling the road is overrated??? Unless you are a zombie and prefer to have a car dictate what you do, then you are correct. Anyone who like to drive and drive safely. Handling is a thing you will not over look. I prefer active safety over reactive safety any time.

Also if feeling the road is overrated and handling is over rated. Then why bother with IS. That's go straight to ES. Where it is roomier, and cheaper to boot. So what purpose does IS serve? Based on your logic, IS350 is totally useless. I could get all your want by putting the 3.5 V6 into the ES (which will happen next year). That's kill the IS.

4CYLNDR

I think its a lost cause when people resort to cheap shots, and calls ANYONE who praises ANY car other than their beloved Lexus a fan boy, completely sidestepping the actual merits on which people are making their arguments, and completely ignoring the fact that in responding the way they respond, it becomes pretty clear who the fanboys car.

To that extent, YES, the LEXUS is the best car on the market, you made the right choice, and no one is threatening your manhood, your decision making capabilities, or any other insecurities one might have. When a Car mag test hails a Lexus as the best car, everyone embraces the article which unqualified zealousness. When a Car mag hails another car as being better then the Lexus, excuses abound. Doesn't matter if its an EVO forum, a Mustang forum, or a Lexus forum, its always the same bs.