Back from Tast of Lexus- IS350 huge dissapointment
11-07-05, 01:42 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by MSMLexIS
I would rather have the Lexus because it looks better is more refined faster and has better quality plus its still alot cheaper. Aother thing you should consider the cars at taste of lexus are pre production cars thats why there was the rattle and why the suspension flet the way it did. When i went to the launch party the car handled way better. So go to a dealer and then tell us how you like it.
"more refined" = subjective
"better quality" = subjective
"still alot cheaper" = objective, but completely false
- the is350 starts at 36k, out the door with options around 42-44k,
- the 330i starts at 36k, out the door with options around 40-44k
handling characteristics = objectively quantifiable
chassis characterisitcs = objectively quantifiable (assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)
steering characteristics = objectively quantifiable.
Please, lets make our arguments rationale.
11-07-05, 01:45 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by chiawei
That's put it this way.
I can buy a $2000 Civic. Put in a H22A and turbo it. I would probably outgun IS350 through out the speed range. So what is the point of being able to outgun in the straight?
Why spend $45k to drive a car that only does well in straight. If we are only looking for a straight line performance, I can buy a avalon with same 3.5 V6 add an after market force induction. I will out run the IS350. Heck, i can buy a pontiac GTO and super charge it and kill pretty much on straight line.
Feeling the road is overrated??? Unless you are a zombie and prefer to have a car dictate what you do, then you are correct. Anyone who like to drive and drive safely. Handling is a thing you will not over look. I prefer active safety over reactive safety any time.
Also if feeling the road is overrated and handling is over rated. Then why bother with IS. That's go straight to ES. Where it is roomier, and cheaper to boot. So what purpose does IS serve? Based on your logic, IS350 is totally useless. I could get all your want by putting the 3.5 V6 into the ES (which will happen next year). That's kill the IS.
I can buy a $2000 Civic. Put in a H22A and turbo it. I would probably outgun IS350 through out the speed range. So what is the point of being able to outgun in the straight?
Why spend $45k to drive a car that only does well in straight. If we are only looking for a straight line performance, I can buy a avalon with same 3.5 V6 add an after market force induction. I will out run the IS350. Heck, i can buy a pontiac GTO and super charge it and kill pretty much on straight line.
Feeling the road is overrated??? Unless you are a zombie and prefer to have a car dictate what you do, then you are correct. Anyone who like to drive and drive safely. Handling is a thing you will not over look. I prefer active safety over reactive safety any time.
Also if feeling the road is overrated and handling is over rated. Then why bother with IS. That's go straight to ES. Where it is roomier, and cheaper to boot. So what purpose does IS serve? Based on your logic, IS350 is totally useless. I could get all your want by putting the 3.5 V6 into the ES (which will happen next year). That's kill the IS.
well said. If people were or even tried to be just a bit more objective, they'd realize that the "characteristics" they deem important and ultimately dispositive of what makes the "better car" are ONLY important because they point to the Lexus. Of course, when you take the same rationales and criteria and realize that based on them there is an EVEN BETTER choice of car, well, then you start to see the subjectivity. But it shouldn't frustrate you, because, it'll never end. Its human nature.
11-07-05, 01:45 PM
#48
Originally Posted by LeslieRC
I enjoyed your reviews. One question - have you tested an `05.5 or `06 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro? I ask because I purchased an `05.5 to serve as my daily driver (the other cars are an `04 SC430 and an `04 GX470) and, in short, I absolutely love driving the A4. Using the Tiptronic gearbox, acceleration and response are excellent. I have the sport suspension and the handling and feel of the car are a blast. If you've ever driven the `05.5 or `06 A4, I'm wondering what you think of that car in comparison to the IS250/350.
11-07-05, 01:47 PM
#49
careful there, 4CYLNDR, your comments are getting mighty close to criticizing LEXUS, which will get you spanked on this here forum...facts & objectivity don't matter, it's all about blind passion 
11-07-05, 01:49 PM
#50
and people, READ THIS:
i am NOT going to waste anymore of my time telling people to be nice here. i said it before, and davegs4 also said it. be nice, be constructive, or be ready to get banned. i am tired of giving out little warning here and there, so i will make this short. NO MORE NAME CALLING, and i dont' want to see the word "fan-boy" here anymore. i take that very seriously and don't test me.
bottom line, if you don't like people to call you the same way, don't start it in the beginning.
got that?
i am NOT going to waste anymore of my time telling people to be nice here. i said it before, and davegs4 also said it. be nice, be constructive, or be ready to get banned. i am tired of giving out little warning here and there, so i will make this short. NO MORE NAME CALLING, and i dont' want to see the word "fan-boy" here anymore. i take that very seriously and don't test me.
bottom line, if you don't like people to call you the same way, don't start it in the beginning.
got that?
11-07-05, 01:50 PM
#51
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by rominl
i drove the a4 before, it's one damn nice car. seriously i think it's comparable to the 330i, it's a lot of fun to drive! the handling is good, but the interior is still no match to lexus though
Every last person who has seen my car to date whether picky or not has said that they're shocked at how poor of an engineering decision that armrest was for a car that probably has quite a few manual transmission buyers!
11-07-05, 01:56 PM
#52
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chiawei,
You just don't get it. The IS 350 doesn't meet you or your wife's needs, but that doesn't mean it doesn't meet the needs of others. You don't like the softer, loose steering but it doesn't mean that it's too loose for others, and in no way does it mean the car is unsafe as you claim. And somehow I doubt that every person who drove the 330i and IS 350 thought the 330i was more fun. You exagerate way too much.
Both the IS and 3 series are great cars that appeal differently to different people. If handling is your top concern, as in your case, then yes the 3 series should appeal more to you. But to others, straight line acceleration, interior comfort, reliability, exterior styling may weigh differently. What it comes down to for most people is which car is better suited for themselves.
Some people will pick the IS because it better meets their needs. While others would choose the 3 series, or the G35, or the TL. Debating which car is "better" is pointless in this case because what is better for you, may not be what is better for others.
You just don't get it. The IS 350 doesn't meet you or your wife's needs, but that doesn't mean it doesn't meet the needs of others. You don't like the softer, loose steering but it doesn't mean that it's too loose for others, and in no way does it mean the car is unsafe as you claim. And somehow I doubt that every person who drove the 330i and IS 350 thought the 330i was more fun. You exagerate way too much.
Both the IS and 3 series are great cars that appeal differently to different people. If handling is your top concern, as in your case, then yes the 3 series should appeal more to you. But to others, straight line acceleration, interior comfort, reliability, exterior styling may weigh differently. What it comes down to for most people is which car is better suited for themselves.
Some people will pick the IS because it better meets their needs. While others would choose the 3 series, or the G35, or the TL. Debating which car is "better" is pointless in this case because what is better for you, may not be what is better for others.
11-07-05, 01:57 PM
#53
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by 4CYLNDR
"looks better" = subjective
"more refined" = subjective
"better quality" = subjective
"still alot cheaper" = objective, but completely false
- the is350 starts at 36k, out the door with options around 42-44k,
- the 330i starts at 36k, out the door with options around 40-44k
handling characteristics = objectively quantifiable
chassis characterisitcs = objectively quantifiable (assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)
steering characteristics = objectively quantifiable.
Please, lets make our arguments rationale.
"more refined" = subjective
"better quality" = subjective
"still alot cheaper" = objective, but completely false
- the is350 starts at 36k, out the door with options around 42-44k,
- the 330i starts at 36k, out the door with options around 40-44k
handling characteristics = objectively quantifiable
chassis characterisitcs = objectively quantifiable (assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)
steering characteristics = objectively quantifiable.
Please, lets make our arguments rationale.
What someone feels is 'subjective' can be "proven" with quantifiable evidence in many cases (for the member quoted above JD Powers rankings for example on the 'better quality' for Lexus vs BMW) by another. Same thing on the driving 'quantifiable' components... it's individual preference and I expect everyone on this forum to respect other member's preference... you don't have to agree with it, but don't attack it.
Comments that make sweeping stereotypes about Lexus owners or this forum will not be tolerated. For example something like "(assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)" is not appropriate.
Originally Posted by Lexus3oi
careful there, 4CYLNDR, your comments are getting mighty close to criticizing LEXUS, which will get you spanked on this here forum...facts & objectivity don't matter, it's all about blind passion
Last edited by DaveGS4; 11-07-05 at 02:03 PM.
11-07-05, 02:00 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
Perception and subjective observations are OK on this forum, just don't try to couch them as 'fact'.
What someone feels is 'subjective' can be "proven" with quantifiable evidence in many cases (for the member quoted above JD Powers rankings for example on the 'better quality' for Lexus vs BMW) by another. Same thing on the driving 'quantifiable' components... it's individual preference and I expect everyone on this forum to respect other member's preference... you don't have to agree with it, but don't attack it.
Comments that make sweeping stereotypes about Lexus owners or this forum will not be tolerated. For example something like "(assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)" is not appropriate.
Here's another good example. Lexus3oi just got a 24 hour time out.
What someone feels is 'subjective' can be "proven" with quantifiable evidence in many cases (for the member quoted above JD Powers rankings for example on the 'better quality' for Lexus vs BMW) by another. Same thing on the driving 'quantifiable' components... it's individual preference and I expect everyone on this forum to respect other member's preference... you don't have to agree with it, but don't attack it.
Comments that make sweeping stereotypes about Lexus owners or this forum will not be tolerated. For example something like "(assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)" is not appropriate.
Here's another good example. Lexus3oi just got a 24 hour time out.
wow.
11-07-05, 02:02 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Threxx
To me my A4's interior feels nearly as well made as the interior on the IS, but the materials used are much 'plainer', and the look of it is dated by about 10 years IMO... very 'upright/staunch' looking. It does have a couple of rattles over RR tracks and such too with only 400 miles on the car (though most people prolly wouldn't notice them, I'm OCD about rattles). Ergonomics SUCK. The idiots that made this car made the emergency brake completely blocked by the center console arm rest to where you can not put it up without moving the armrest up, and I prefer to have it down when driving. Even worse yet is that once you move it up, it forces you to move it all the way up and then all the way back down. So my routine consists of parking, pulling the armrest up, setting the parking brake, coming back to the car, lowering the parking brake, raising the arm rest the rest of the way up and then lower it back down, then start driving.
Every last person who has seen my car to date whether picky or not has said that they're shocked at how poor of an engineering decision that armrest was for a car that probably has quite a few manual transmission buyers!
Every last person who has seen my car to date whether picky or not has said that they're shocked at how poor of an engineering decision that armrest was for a car that probably has quite a few manual transmission buyers!
11-07-05, 02:03 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
What someone feels is 'subjective' can be "proven" with quantifiable evidence in many cases (for the member quoted above JD Powers rankings for example on the 'better quality' for Lexus vs BMW) by another. Same thing on the driving 'quantifiable' components... it's individual preference and I expect everyone on this forum to respect other member's preference... you don't have to agree with it, but don't attack it.
.
.
11-07-05, 02:05 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Faraaz23
I just wanted to address some issues other people have posted in this thread.
About the free BMW Maintenance.... thats a great thing to have along with the warranty... but many people in this country are VERY busy... working at least 60-80 hours a week, if not more. Consequently, being able to take even 30-45 minutes to drop off your car and pick it up at a dealer, is not even an option for some people. Even as a full-time student, it was very difficult for me to find time in my day to go battle traffic and go well out of my way to take my Volvo for repairs every month or two. I'd find myself driving a car with the dash lit up like a christmas tree for weeks simply because I had too full of a schedule to be able to bother with it. On top of it, I've yet to see any dealer, even our coveted lexus dealers, who have a loaner car available everytime... especially on shorter notice. In that case, you are stuck finding alternative means of transportation. In addition, many people like to get their money out of a car, and like to keep it 8-10 years. I think most people here will agree that generally, a 7yeard old Lexus requires less visits to the dealer than a 7 yeard old BMW. So in short, I'd say that free maintenance DOES NOT alleviate "any" reliability concerns you may have.
About the free BMW Maintenance.... thats a great thing to have along with the warranty... but many people in this country are VERY busy... working at least 60-80 hours a week, if not more. Consequently, being able to take even 30-45 minutes to drop off your car and pick it up at a dealer, is not even an option for some people. Even as a full-time student, it was very difficult for me to find time in my day to go battle traffic and go well out of my way to take my Volvo for repairs every month or two. I'd find myself driving a car with the dash lit up like a christmas tree for weeks simply because I had too full of a schedule to be able to bother with it. On top of it, I've yet to see any dealer, even our coveted lexus dealers, who have a loaner car available everytime... especially on shorter notice. In that case, you are stuck finding alternative means of transportation. In addition, many people like to get their money out of a car, and like to keep it 8-10 years. I think most people here will agree that generally, a 7yeard old Lexus requires less visits to the dealer than a 7 yeard old BMW. So in short, I'd say that free maintenance DOES NOT alleviate "any" reliability concerns you may have.
So far, I really haven't had major mechanical problems thus far (knock on wood). Everyone's situation is different. Reliability has never been a major concern for me because i do have alternate transportation even if no loaner is available. Plus, i always have the luxury of having the car towed to the dealer is i need to have it towed through road side assistance.
Through the 4 BMW i only have needed to have one car towed from my garage once (that is caused by ESS erasing my security code on the ECU after S/C kit installation).
11-07-05, 02:07 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by rominl
yes, that's exactly what i meant. i didn't only meant on the quality of the material used, but also about the design, ease of use, the look, etc... the IS just look so modern and easy to use. it's kinda weird, but the new 3 series and audi, the interior both look pretty "old"...
11-07-05, 02:08 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by 4CYLNDR
Sure they can be "proven" with quantifiable evidence, but as a potential Lexus buyer looking to evaluate the merits of the ACTUAL CAR, it doesn't help much when people on these forums CITE all the Car Reviews that comment favorably on the Lexus and MAKE EXCUSES FOR or OTHERWISE REJECT Car Reviews that don't comment favorably on the Lexus. Not too objective if you ask me, but he who runs the forums makes the rules.
. I'm not asking too much either.... treat other members as if they were friends of yours sitting across a table from you having a discussion or debate. No need to poke them in the eye, and no need to say your opinion is better than theirs.... if people can't follow our rules we ask them to leave. On the bias, sure it's going to happen. This is ClubLEXUS and not BimmerForums.com or MBWorld.org etc. You go to those sites and you'll see the same native bias to the maker that forum is related to. Its up to the educated consumer to read for themselves and more importantly go drive the cars they're considering themselves and make up their own mind.
11-07-05, 02:10 PM
#60
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by 4CYLNDR
"looks better" = subjective
"more refined" = subjective
"better quality" = subjective
"still alot cheaper" = objective, but completely false
- the is350 starts at 36k, out the door with options around 42-44k,
- the 330i starts at 36k, out the door with options around 40-44k
handling characteristics = objectively quantifiable
chassis characterisitcs = objectively quantifiable (assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)
steering characteristics = objectively quantifiable.
Please, lets make our arguments rationale.
"more refined" = subjective
"better quality" = subjective
"still alot cheaper" = objective, but completely false
- the is350 starts at 36k, out the door with options around 42-44k,
- the 330i starts at 36k, out the door with options around 40-44k
handling characteristics = objectively quantifiable
chassis characterisitcs = objectively quantifiable (assuming moderate experience with performance driving, which may be a problem on this board)
steering characteristics = objectively quantifiable.
Please, lets make our arguments rationale.
Anyhow the BMW with destination was just a hair over 50,000 dollars!
The IS350 was more like 45,000 including destination, and again, with many features unavailable on the BMW.