Penforhire

Hello guys. I've been shopping the IS350 versus the 330i and the choice is tough! I know you all are L-fans but I'd still like your input. I searched and read just about everything posted in this forum.

Here's the deal. I drive an '03 Z06 now. My wife will only drive an auto and doesn't like when I drive it (and it VERY low to the ground, etc.). I suppose the Z06 brings out my evil twin. Anyway, that means whenever we go somewhere I end up driving her Jeep Liberty (sucky-SUV despite having all the options, I preferred her old Grand Cherokee). So I'm thinking about changing to a sport-lux car and my price goal is < $50K. I'm a larger-than-average guy and I've eliminated most other choices (e.g. MB E350 is a hair too expensive, G35/M35 seats are not comfy).

Today we test-drove the IS350 and 330i back-to-back. Interior comfort is better in the IS, just like the reviews said. IS power is more than adequate, obviously a jump over the 330i, and I felt the IS auto shifts a bit smoother under low-load driving. So far everything matches the reviews I can find. Unfortunately I couldn't push either car really hard on these dealer test drives but I am worried about the VDIM. Given that everything else in the reviews is true am I going to be horribly disappointed ("Should'a bought a BMW!") the first time I take a run over Angeles Crest?

Based on what I read I'm thinking of buying the IS Luxury package w/18" wheels and adding an aftermarket coilover set later. I mean, if the Sport option retains the same spring rate something is rotten in Denmark (uh, Japan). Spring rate has to matched to damping for optimal handling -- at least that's what I think I know after a bunch of years doing auto-x racing (but no, I'm not thinking of racing the IS). I mean, right now I get a goofy smile on my face when I chase sportbikes over ACR, when I'm not on my bike up there, and I'd hope to continue that. Unfortunately that type of driving is a low % of my work-a-day life.

So has anyone done some IS350 suspension work yet? Improving grip should mean VDIM kicks in less. It bothers me that I could feel so much superior acceleration in the IS and vehicle weights are close but the 330i gets review-picked as a better driving car (something I couldn't really test). I will say the IS steering felt almost too light at slower speeds while the 330i's was nice and heavy (I don't think it had the variable-steer option).

Yes, BMW's I-drive Nav system is annoying and so is their key-in-dash system. Maybe I'm stodgy but the 330i styling, with Sport package wheels, still works for me as does the IS (being edgier and fresher). The MSRP prices total up very close if similarly equipped and I'm assuming I can get more knocked off the BMW's price than the brand-new IS.

On the Lux side of things I think the comfort, quiet, and full ML system will sway me to the IS. I normally add $1-2K aftermarket stereo (Bose blows, so all-Alpine plus a sub in my Z06) but maybe I'd let this one ride. My local dealer doesn't have any ML-equipped IS's and one their sleazy salesmen tells me "Lexus won't be adding any full ML's to IS's." I won't deal with that crook so I'm working with salesman #2. He asks me what color I'm interested in since he's got a list of what they expect to get in the next three months. So I ask, "okay, what are you getting in with ML systems?" His answer, "Uh, I can't tell." Similar problem with "This car doesn't have the Sport package right?" (I checked the sticker). And his answer, "Oh yes, this is very sporty."

I don't want to pass on the right car just because of inept salesmen but these guys are making it hard. The BMW salesperson was way more knowledgeable and low-pressure.

I figure the Lexus should have better reliability but BMW's warranty and "zero-maintenance" program (4 yr/50K) have a warm fuzzy feeling to them.

Can you tell I'm undecided? I know, keep the Z06 and dump the wife...

RRocket

I also drove the cars back-to-back. My findings are much the same as your. I found the IS to be way, way better, and to really determine if the BMW is a better handling car, you'd have to go to a rece track. Even blasting on some on ramps and some twisty local roads, you can't push them (sanely) enough to say one handles better. Apparently, you can completely shut off the stability/traction with "recipe" of brake pumps and such, as was mentioned here before and in Automobile magazine. I asked if anyone has tried it...just curious! At any rate, the IS350 is the better car, by far IMO. And if you get bored with it, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before someone makes a supercharger for it...though I firmly believe an IS450 is on the horizon...

pwndzzled

I drove them back to back too, and I had an '02 325xi. I would say that you don't need to go to a racetrack to tell that the 330 handles better. It FEELS better to drive, IMO, quite significantly. The car is more transparent—you are more connected to the road, even in "general" driving. However, the difference was one that I thought I could get used to, and I'd say I have somewhat over the first week of owning it. (The IS 350 Sport) I was swayed by the reliability (reputation), interior, and the raw speed of the IS. BMW still looks better, has a more sophisticated look and culture.... and that $0 service plan is nice.

For me, it wasn't a question of 330i or IS 350, it was 530i or IS. I still went with the IS. As of now, I'm still pleased with my decision. Some of that may simply be the variety-factor too—but I do miss certain aspects of the BMW. And I suspect in 3 or so years when I get the itch for something new again, it'll be a 5-series with European delivery that wins me over now that I'm getting the raw speed factor out of my system.... but who knows, maybe it'll push me to the 550i or maybe even M5 if business keeps going well. I probably won't be able to get the speed out of me completely. hehe

Xanadu350

I look at it like this....you can have the best handling car in the class, but with an interior like the E90 it's enough for me to run away. That is where BMW messed up, they went backwards, the E46 has a very sexy and classy interior that curves toward the driver. The E90 interior is just all wrong, it's like they went back to the 70's. The exterior I can live with but not that interior, sorry dude, it's flat and boring. I own an E46 and love it as much as the day I bought it in 1999.

I think the IS350 just has the total package together. The only thing I am dissapointed in with the new IS is rear seating, why couldn't they have just increased the rear leg room by 2 or 3 more inches would have made longer trips a little more bearable for all passangers. The car length is now 180 would it have been so hard to make it 184 and give those 4 inches to the rear seating? THEN it would be a perfect car. But with all that, doesn't mean I won't buy it.

xravexboix

IS maintenance literally consists of:

Oil change
Oil change
oil change...
oil... change....

the 6AT is maintenance-free until 100K (or was it 150K... I ... Don't... Remember...)
the coolant isn't changed until 100K, then every 50K afterward
Brake fluid ... haven't checked yet... but it should be fine

The biggest 'enemy' just might be the brakes... since they are "performance brakes" and wear faster... I'm guessing a 15K life for most 50 city/50 highway drivers... but we'll see =P

I personally thought the 330i was just right. The power provided was enough for the car... IMO the IS seriously feels overpowered for the size and suspension stiffness... I went w/ the IS because it's a nicer looking sedan than the 06 330... if it were the 05 330... then I may not be posting here =P

4DOORFUN

I currently drive a modified 2000 Mustang GT. It's pretty fast, but hardly a ZO6. Anyway, I drove the IS 350 WITHOUT the saleman and I was able to push the acceleration hard. I was impressed with the power and I think it will make a nice replacement for my Mustang. The Mustang low-end power is better, but the Lexus pulled harder from the mid-range all the way to redline. It's hard to describe, but the Mustang power is just more raw, which gets a little old sometimes.

I am looking to replace the mustang with a four door sports sedan because I have two children under 3 yrs. old. Getting them in and out of the two-door Mustang is a serious PITA and something that I don't even attempt any longer. I realize the back seat in the IS is pretty tight, but my usege will be mainly for young children. Just having access to the rear seats by having four doors is going to make getting the kids in and out a heck of a lot easier.

As for handling, the IS I drove did not have the sport package, but I still thought it was sporty enough for me. It felt more responsive than my mustang and have some suspension work done to that car. I will be ordering the sport package on the IS, so handling will only be better than what I was already exposed to.

VDIM - this was a huge concern for me as well. I can honestly tell you that it was not that intrusive during my test drive. It allowsed for some mild oversteer and allowed for some wheelspin on the 1-2 shift. I don't plan on autocrossing, so I think I can live with it. However, if I had my choice and Lexus made it an option, I would not opt for the VDIM.

The other car I am considering is an '06 Audi A4 S-line w/quattro and the 2.0 turbo. You can chip the turbo for like 250 hp/290 tq. (flywheel). The Audi interior is also a bit larger and even more beautiful than the IS.

4DOORFUN

I think you live inside my head. Man I wish the IS had just a tad more rear seat room, but I am trying to convince myself that I can live with it.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

Acura just loaned me a TL that I had to drive 10 hours one way and 10 hours back. I have driven the BMW and the IS. The Acura TL is right in between but if I was going to buy... I would save the money and buy the TL. Sorry to add another car but I don't know if you have checked it out yet. For the 1200 mile round trip I took in it. The car got better and better with every mile. Comptech the Acura aftermarket performance Vendor has some nice proformace mods for the car that don't take any comfort drivability away. Like a Super Charger and more. Your wife would not even know it was on the car. Good luck. !

Penforhire

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I just figured some owner would have talked to a company like Ground Control by now. The only time I turn off Traction Control in the Z06 is for 1/4 mile drags and the only time I turn off Active Handling is for auto-x. Good systems like those can be a lifesaver in ordinary commutes and I can still reel in sportbikes with those systems on.

I'm hoping I can push the IS hard enough to entertain with the VDIM active, as is RRocket's experience. I'm just choking on how much the reviewers preferred the 330i in the twisties. The idea of pressing the throttle just past apex and getting nothing because VDIM kicks in sounds bad. And it chimes every time?

Rear seating? If I wanted Lexus comfort for four I'd be thinking GS or LS. Cramped rear accomodations are fine for me. Of course, the rear seats should drop down to open up the trunk...

Agni88

Most auto mags preffered the BMW because all around it is a better car and did excelent in the handling department.

And also u can get comfort access in the bmw so u dont have to put the fob in the slot.
And about the iDrive, it takes some getting used to, but it is the most intuitive system out there and one of the least distratcing. Allthough many people hated it at first, after getting used to it they are realizing that it is a great system, many car companies like infiniti, acura, mercedes and audi are copying the iDrive concept.


One thing i dont like about the IS is the green interior lighting, it looks very cheap toyota ish. The bimmer has Amber back lighting. And also another nice touch are BMW is the LED door handle lights on each door and offcourse the Angel eyes.

The IS is more powerfull and very smooth/quiet, and if its pure HP u want then get the IS, if u want a better all around car that excelles in handling i'd say go with the BMW.

Each car has its own unique features, see what u want and pick the car thats right for you.

pita2go

i also test drove the 330 and in my opinion the options.... there was too many for the 330... i think the IS had a lot more options standard than the 330.. also..

power difference.. the IS 350 is quick.. i can tell you.. because i guned it.. because the other dealership i went to let me test drive both.. and the sales man was really cool and he let me at it.. it was quicker than my older car.. and I had a suped up GTI...

keyless system

ipod/mp3/wma option

but also reliability is a big one too..

it's all up to you I guess. all in preference..

Ratman009

330i. Much more room inside. You can comfortably fit two adults in the back if you HAVE to. I know you said that you aren't worried about it right now, but wouldn't you rather have your cake and eat it too? Plus, the sport seats in the 330i sport package are superior to the IS seats, at least for larger people (particularly if you have longer legs). And you won't have to worry about hitting your head on the door frame every time you get out of of the 330i (if you are anything over 6 feet or so).

The key statement you make is your concern over how the car will handle in the twisties. The magazine reviewers are correct, the 330i is a noticeably better handling vehicle over anything resembling a roadcourse. Many here will quickly disagree with me on this point, but go drive the two yourself (over the same roads if possible, and drive the cars HARD and you will quickly notice the difference.

The overall combination of chassis dynamics and fantastic steering response (avoid active steering at all costs, waste of $1200) on the sport 330i are just fabulous. Being that you can also get the 330i for roughly $1000 over invoice right now, there's a good chance that the 330i may even be cheaper than the IS.

Tony1

No offense, but any1 that would pick a 330i over a is350 is insane.
I just purchased my is350 about 1 month ago, and traded in
my 02 330cic for it.. I honestly can say i dont miss it at all. I dont
care what all the magazine reviews say about the Bmw, they have to
be biased. The new 3 series's interior is disgusiting and cheap looking,
not to mention the stock stereo system, which sounds like a cheap
transistor radio when you turn it all the way up.. The exterior looks decent,
the rear is "eh" at best. The road feel is exceptional, but that doesn't
equate to better handling, bmw's just feel like they handle better, just
look at the G #'s they pull, acura Rsx's handle just as well.. Not to mention
that when you buy a bmw get ready to have the car fall apart in the first 2 years,
along with a assorted array of lovely electrical problems which bmw's
are known to have.. My previous 330cic was in the shop about 6 times, and
i babied it and it only had 18k miles on it when i traded it in,, Do you guys believe
the front signal markers actually flew off while i was on the highway?

The guy from the speed channel said it perfectly, why should lexus try to
out bmw, bmw? They've decided to out lexus them instead....

Gojirra99

Well said

jlin101

you are one of the very few that actually praise the iDrive. "Great after you get used to it!?"--lol, that's what the orthodontist said about the braces. As far as green interior lighting goes; yes you find it in cheaper Toyota (in Lexus LS and GS, too); but you also find amber lighting in cheap Nissans and Mazdas (and Infiniti). Despite having keyless entry and a start button in the 330, the key fob still has to be inserted into a slot--might as well just use the old key.