what I really want to know is how much better is the ML system over the stock Pioneer one. Has anyone got the chance to compare both. I'm fairly impressed by the stock one already and I really can't tell if the ML one is better. I do find the Pioneer one is slightly brighter. I didn't compare both back to back though.

 

Actually the ML system only comes with DVD support if you buy it in the bundled package with the NAV system. Standalone ML does not have a DVD changer/player and hence no DVD support. Also ML + NAV will play movie video only when the car is in park, although the audio portion of the DVD can be heard.

MP3 DVD aspect will have to be answered by someone else.

 

MP3 DVD has been reported not to work.

 

Ah, ok, thanks.

 

Actually, Bichon, are you sure about that? I thought I remembered hearing in a few other places that MP3 DVDs are supposed to work.

For example, I just found one review where it says that they do:
http://www.testdriven.co.uk/news.cfm...r_new_lexus_is

"The new equipment can play MP3 and WMA files stored on CD or DVD, and, through an auxiliary socket concealed in the centre console box, can link to personal audio equipment such as an iPod or Mini Disc player. Furthermore, an in-dash, six-disc CD and DVD player is also provided."

 

lot of people have tried doing DVD MP3s but it doesnt seem to be reading it

 

Not to dredge up an old thread, but Lexus/ML says that the ML system plays DVDs (DVD-A and DVD video) regardless of having Nav. (though obviously there won't be a screen to see movies on without Nav). This doesn't change not playing mp3s off a DVD, but you ought be able to play DVD-A discs on a car with ML but no Nav. (You might could listen to movies that way too, but I don't know...and presumably you could wire the video out on the ML unit to your own screen but again I dunno).

 

Thanks for that information Kurtz. It would seem to make the value added for the upcharge for standalone ML and ML/NAV a bit dubious. In essense,$3000+ for adding Nav to an ML equiped car. I've always felt that Lexus/Toyota overprice the ML/NAV combo on the IS.

 

Percy:

Thank you for taking sooo much time to do your analysis and then write up. I would say you definately know what your listening for and have good experience. HOWEVER, this is where I have to challenge your entire write up. But before I do, here is my history.

I paid my way through college designing, installing and competing with car audio systems. I did this from 1990 - 1996 and was ranked nationally in the USA and was sponsored by Precision Power, MB Quart and JL Audio. All of these brands were in the elite in the car audio industry. The system I had was worth over $40,000 and the average system our installation shop built was over $20,000. I was also involved with the team that built the world record holder for SPL that had to be reitred because of how badly we shattered the previous record that stood for 6 years. My car was also featured in major magazines during this time period. In addition to my design and competition experience, I was also a certified IASCA judge for these high end competitions where systems were evaluated on the following criterias: Sound Quality by ear, Frequency Response using an RTA meter, design and implementation, install quality, and to me most important, the sound stage and how real they could get to the original recording (remembering I am in a car).

With all this being said, lets assume I know what I am talking about. I have the IS350 with ML and I agree with most of your comments in principal. However, you can NOT compare any car audio system to your Dyn Home system. That is not a fair comparison and an average home system can be better than a car system. I built from scratch some home speakers using 3/4 MDF reinforced and tuned ported, Focal speakers and a custom cross-over network using top level capicitors and resistors. My home made speakers sounded awesome in my home in comparison to my $40,000 car system. However, if I compared my home made speakers to a B&W or Martin Logan home system there was no comparison. My point is you can only compare the ML system to the other Lexus systems like you tried to do and then to other car makes. If you compare the ML system to the BMW, Infinti, or Acura system, the ML will win every time. I have never heard the Dyn Volvo system, so I can't comment.

Again thank you for what you were trying to do, but I think it was misplaced and will lead the CL members the wrong way. In my opinion, the ML system is 100% worth the increase ONLY if you plan not to install a complex aftermarket system. Even if you are going to do an aftermarket system with top brands, I believe it will cost you a minimum of $8,000 or more to beat this ML system. That makes the ML system for $3,000 look better. Additionally, if you want more bass than the stock system gives you and that is all most people usually care about, you can use your stock system and still add a JL sub and amp without changing the stock speakers. Seek a high end shop with references and you will do fine.

I hope I helped my fellow CL members. I normally don't write this much but Percy's article just motivated me.

 

The thing is... the ML system isn't 3k.

The ML and Nav might be, but you don't need the nav to listen to music.

I ordered my car with ML but WITHOUT nav... because I already have a Garmin GPS that doesn't cripple itself when I put the car in drive, and cost a ton less than 3k.

If you're negotiating your car price as invoice + a fixed amount then the ML system only adds $752 to the price of the car.

You're not going to get anything that sounds that good in the aftermarket for anywhere near $752, which is why I got the ML system.

The weird part of the lexus pricing though is the invoice cost for ML is $752. The invoice cost for Nav (without ML) is $2168. The price for Nav -and- ML though? $3320.

They charge you $400 -extra- if you get both options. Which was yet another reason I skipped Nav.

Honestly the only feature I'm upset the ML doesn't give you is playing MP3s off a DVD... given it reads DVDs for DVD-A and DVD-V discs this doesn't make much sense.

 

Yes, Kurtz I totally agree the ML system for seven hundred and change is a "bargain" and I applaud Lexus for allowing the IS customer the option, albeit a somewhat stealthy special order type option, to order the car with ML sans NAV. Of course the flip side is I've got to flip the corporate Lexus honchos the bird for the fact the the vast majority of ML equipped cars come with the NAV at a hideously overpriced MSRP approaching $4K on the sticker. Even at invoice that combo seems a bit too dear, IMO, of course.

 

Oh absolutely... as I noted, not only is the Nav option way overpriced by itself, they sock you for an -extra- $400 charge if you get Nav when you're also getting ML... above and beyond the cost of getting each one seperately. When I asked the dealer why the hell it costs $400 -more- to get them togtether than it did seperately he had no answer. And as you note all the ML cars on the lot got Nav forced into them from Lexus.

That's why I special ordered.

Well, that and the fact you can't find sport pkg cars anywhere in the region... I guess in general I don't care for the way Lexus does their optioning on the lots... but hey, they're making $ their way, so what do I know?

 

Your conclusion that the Nav is 'way overpriced' seems to be because you are mainly looking at the functionality aspect. To me it is competititive with other cars in this category, and not an unreasonable price. You can't try to compare it with portable, stick it on the windshield, nav units. They may function the same, but that is the not sole reason for getting the Lexus Nav. A cheap, Canal Street Rolex tells the time just like a real Rolex and will often fool a casual observer, but people will pay to wear the real deal for other reasons than just the time telling aspect. It is wrapped up in overall quality and how it makes the owner feel. That's how luxury is marketed.

The reason there is a price difference between Nav/ML option, and Nav and ML sold separately is simple, the Nav/ML feature has a DVD reader built in to the system. Whether it is worth the difference in the price is up to you, but that is a large part of the reason for the price variation.

I do agree that Lexus' optioning program for the IS series is a bit odd from a customer perspective but it seems to work for them. I think the market is so competitive that they think that another $1k added to the price for the ML unit isn't worth it for most buyers (they are probably right). But it is frustrating that those who want ML generally won't find one in dealer's stock unless they are lucky. Same with the Sports Package. Perhaps Lexus figures most people would want the Luxury Package rather than the Sports Package. Lexus is a luxury car company, and they haven't quite figured out how to market more sports oriented cars to enthusiasts yet. Hopefully they will, but things change slowly in this area. Let's see how the IS-F marketing goes. But in the end Lexus makes a lot of money, so they must be doing something right.

 

ive been into car audio for some 15 years myself, i invented the power mouse and my own custom line of subwoofers.
i have to say i totally agree with persey's assesment of the ML system, however i think if i can get hold of a wireing schematic for the amp and install a small resistor on the center channel output i believe the system would be much improved. the center channel is WAY too loud. the staging can easily be enhanced just by attenuating that speaker.
does anyone have a wire diagram?

 

I thought the extra $400 was for Park Assist as part of the package.