casey225

I just ordered my 350 today, I heard the stock Pioneer system and thought it was okay for a stock system. The salesmen said they felt there was only a minor improvement in sound quality which could be heard in the showroom, but once you factor in road noise etc., they felt the minimal gain would be lost. I appreciated their honesty, but I would like to hear from others so that I may change my order while possible. I read Percy's excellent post, but want to hear from "average" listeners. BTW, Percy, I have never been impressed with Bose, maybe I'm an intermediate? To me the stereo is the second most important factor in ride quality (first is bhp... ). Thanks in advance.

kensteele

i think you know the answer to this already. everyone's ears are going to hear differently during different periods of their life over the years and under different conditions. i only hear ml, i have never heard non-ml so i can't say. but you can't measure sound quality in $$$ because everyone's value of $$$ is so different already nevermind the difference in sound quality.

just get the ml; try not to think about it too much or overanalyze it.

evren

get the ML, its a significant upgrade.

gshb

honestly ML isnt worth it. the stock system sounds perfectly well for its environment and this is me coming from having A900, DT770pro, and an epic grand master axiom system at home. i dont think anyone is going to be critically listening to the prelude of bach's cello suite #1 in g-major while drivng to or from work...

AVALEX

I have heard a lot of good things about the ML. The only bad thing I have heard is that ML has optical wiring (not bad in itself) but that would limit any after-market additions. I already have a pretty good system in my car now and would like to carry over my subs to my new lexus (is 250 awd). I was told two things: 1) Nav w/o ML does not have optical wiring and 2) right now you can only get the ML if you order it from the factory (which would take around 4 months). If anyone can prove that this is untrue please let me know!

Now based on this I was thinking of getting the Nav w/o ML and adding my subs. However since I was not able to try the ML in the IS I am unsure.

Do you think it would be better to go ahead with the ML and basically forget after-market? Or does anyone know of people who have been able to do after-market with the ML and if so how expensive is it to do?

My thinking right now: is it really just that mind blowing that there is nothing better out there (at least that can be added after-market). Also, I think if you really wanted an great system you could go without the ML and still upgrade to better (although I could be proven wrong). I am open minded, so if anybody else has any ideas please let me know!

Thanks to everyone. This forum has been really helpful in so many ways.

p.s. If it helps keep in mind that I really like redicoulus base.

pumper

The primary difference between the two systems is the ML's ability to play DVD-A disc's in full 7.1 channel surround sound. How many DVD-A disc's do you have? How many do you intend to acquire? BTW, the ML system is limited to DVD-A. It won't play SACD disc's.

Also, before you put too much stock in Percy's review, please note that it did not include any DVD-A disc's. He only listened to CD's on the ML system. Also, he didn't compare it to the "stock" audio sytem. He compared it to his "recollection" of the ML systems in other Lexus vehicles and to his home system. His "excellent" review would have been much more beneficial had he listened to the stock system first, if he had used some multi-channel recordings on the ML system, and, if he had left the tone controls set to flat!

Finally and *most importantly,* it would have been much more useful if he had actually driven the car while listening to it. The audio system is going to sound completely different with a background noise level of 68 to 70 dB than it does sitting in a relatively quiet showroom. As your dealer so honestly pointed out, road noise, wind noise, engine noise and environmental noise is going to have a bigger effect on the sound you hear than the sublties of the ML audio system.

Here is my suggection: take a car with the "stock" audio system out for a test drive. Bring along a copy of your favorite audio CD. If you like the sound of the "stock" system while the car is in motion, (and DVD-A is not a big issue for you), save your money. The ML audio system will not be a significant improvement and certainly not worth the extra $$$.

Just my $0.02.

pumper

Langdell

I would take what the salesmen said with a grain of salt for two reasons: (1) Many (most?) people simply cannot hear the difference between a halfway decent sound system and a better one. Your salesman might fall into that category; that doesn't mean you would not be able to hear a difference. (2) It may be that, rather than being strictly honest, they were trying to make a sale by getting you to settle for what they had available rather than holding out for what you really want. Right now, an IS with ML is hard to come by. My original salesman tried the same line on me--insisting that I would be happy with the stock system that was more available--even though I stressed to him that I insisted on the ML system.

I haven't even heard the ML system yet, but the stock system (which was what was in the only IS350 the dealer had available for test drive) failed to blow me away. I mean, it was fine, but it did not jump out at me and say "You really don't need ML after all." I went with the ML on faith, realizing that if I didn't get it I would always wonder what I am missing out on. I take gshb's point about a car not being the right environment for true critical listening. But my reality is that I am a music lover/audiophile who works long hours at the job that is paying for my Lexus, and most days the only time I have to enjoy music at all is in my car. So I want my car to have the best audio system it can have short of the hassle and anguish (let someone cut up my new Lexus?!) of a custom job.

In answer to AVELEX's question about needing a special order to get ML, the answer is yes and no. I was told by two different dealers that ML is only available by special order (with the 3-4 month wait). But it turns out that there are a few in existence. I e-mailed several other dealers around my region and one had an IS350 with ML (plus my other color/option preferences) coming in through their incoming allocation. It is supposed to be ready for me to take delivery within the next several days (fingers crossed!). So, if you're impatient like me, it never hurts to ask around!

casey225

Thanks guys, I think I'm comfortable with my original decision to go with the stock Pioneer. I kind of had the impression the ML system was more about saying "look what I got".

Pumper, you made some very important points referencing Percy's review, those unanswered questions were exactly why I submitted a new post. I appreciate your input and will gladly save myself $1400. If it were my home theater system, I would go all out, but I just can't bring myself to do it in this case.

Lastly, optical wiring is great as long as it's intact, but if one of the wires ever got damaged, seems like it would be quite a pain and overly pricey to fix. Plus, I thought they are somewhat fragile, not something I would have typically expected in an auto setup. How easily/likely would they get damaged in a minor collision?

Langdell, I felt the same way as you about the stock system - sounds good, but not blown away. I've just come to expect there probably won't be any factory installed stereo which will do that. As for the dealer making a sale, they did not have a 350, so it was custom order either way. They did tell me that if I wanted ML, it would have to be custom order. I have called/emailed 7-8 dealers, no one has anything but the very base models, I'm not paying this kind of dough to leave off all the fixin's. I'm buying a freakin' Lexus and I want all the bells and whistles, otherwise, I would go back and buy another one from my Toyota dealer.

NotFatBoy

i dont feel like do a huge writeup but i heard both systems back to back and there was NO DOUBT the ML system is far superior to stock.

Needless to say, I ordered mine with ML and I dont regret the decision one bit

pumper

Don't look back, buddy!

pumper

casey225

I guess my biggest question is: was this only in the showroom, or can you still tell a significant difference when you're on the road? If I did get the ML, I would darn sure convince myself I noticed a differnce.

AsianGirl007

iTrader: (1)

What type of driver are you? Do you listen to traffic/sports/news? Or do you listen to music? Do you SOMETIMES have radio on in car or is it ALWAYS on? How many cd's do you own? While it's true the average person cannot tell the difference between stock and ML, it's also true the average person can tell the difference if they hear it back to back.
I've had cars without ML and I had a car with the ML. It's a awesome system. Personally I wouldn't get again, only because I had a problem with my car's stereo being nicer than the one in my house. lol

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i always only listen to cd, never radio. and i can never live with ml again.... got my gs400 without audio upgrade 4 yrs ago, thoght it's good. 2 yrs ago i got my sc430 and the ml completely blew the gs400 system away. now i think the system on my gs400 is crap.....

i would pay the extra to get the ml any day, especially now you can get to play dvd as well (with nav, which i would get too)

AsianGirl007

iTrader: (1)

Haha...I think everyone already knew your stance on ML.

AVALEX

No, thank you! I didn't even think about how messed up optical can get. I don't have any knowledge specific to car optics, but from my experience with home optics they can be a pain in the butt. One kink can give micro-fractures other places and you just have to replace the whole thing. On top of that if you added anything, that would void the warranty and really screw you up if you needed to replace any optical cables.

Now I am by no way discouraging the ML. I'm actually still interested, especially in finding out how the whole system works and how the wires are protected.

Also, Langdell thanks for your insight, I will definetely check around. I know one of the deciding factors with who gets what is based by region. Virginia and North Carolina is an example of that (NC being in the Southeast and VA Northeast). Anyway, let me know when you get yours how the ML is (and everything else!).