So I received my response from Lexus and their contact with Mark Levinson regarding the inability of the DVD-A discs I had on hand to reproduce any of the surround noise. I tried this with ML Surround both on and off (definitely sounded better with it on) but neither of these provided any surround from the rear, just the front L/R.

The response from Lexus was as follows (paraphrasing here, I don't have the e-mail with me right now)

The ML system in the IS will play DVD-A but only if it is converted to a DTS/Dolby Digital signal.

Now most DVD-A's do this as a compatibility issue if you want to play them on your regular DVD player, or if you don't have the correct outputs/inputs on your receiver to prevent copying. But since this is a DVD-A compatible player in the IS you can't select those sound streams, only the true DVD-A Surround or Stereo.

I tried this on the 2 DVD-As I had on hand, both Nine Inch Nails of the Dual Disc variety.

I have 2 more I'm going to try tonight Stone Temple Pilots: Core and Frank Zappa: Halloween, which are not dual disc and are true DVD-A. I'll see if perhaps it's something specific to the Dual Disc format.

Any other thoughts/insight/comments are always welcome.

 

What thats lame. Thats not DVD-A Capability. If it can only play DTS or Dolby Digital, then its only a DTS/Dolby Digital Player.

Most DVD players can play DTS and Dolby Digital, only a few can play DVD-A.

 

Wow. I smell deceptive marketing. If you ask any end-user of DVD-A (DVD-Audio) discs, Dolby Digital/DTS tracks does NOT make it a DVD-A disc. (And in fact in most cases, barring from source and or mastering issues, DD/DTS are sub-par in quality to true DVD-A tracks).

I'm actually kind of shocked at this news.

Cheers,
Kermee

 

That's exactly what I thought and was one of the reasons I was so excited about the ML... If you look at the manual it notes it's DVD-A compatible but it doesn't show that it plays in that format... I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be branded as a DVD-Audio player (which it clearly is down by the other logos) if it can't play the DVD-A proprietary surround format (which is far superior to DTS/Dolby Digital).

It's one of the reasons I ordered the Frank Zappa: Halloween discs as it's supposed to be one of the best surround mixes available to really show off the format. GRRRRRrrrrr. It does sound beautiful...

One of the things that really irks me is that it does show that it's a surround format, when you bring up the on-screen controls and look at the audio stream it shows as PCM blah blah blah, 3/2.1... so it knows it... it's just not making it happen.

In fact I've noticed in almost all music that I've listened to in surround modes in the IS that the rear surround environment (at least from the drivers seat where I exclusively plant my rear end) is quite muted, I suppose I could move the fade further back, but I haven't had much time to play either.

Movies however, seem to have great seperation, placement, and volume.

So it really chaps my caboose to have a system that sounds great for movies but doesn't play my DVD-A correctly and doesn't stage them correctly in surround.

And a closing question.
When you turn off "ML Surround" in the DSP options does it turn off all surround processing capabilities? Or just turn off the ML processor that determines the staging? I haven't had a source of surround clear enough to test this in the car, but I'll try my THX setup disc tonight if I get the chance.

Word.

 

as earlier there was confusion regarding SACD which will only play the vestigual 2.0 track and not recognize the DVD if it is SACD only encoded. This is the first time I've heard that there is a DVD-A format without DTS or Dolby. I have a hard time finding DVD-A discs to try. I went to Best Buy last week and there were none. I've heard that Circuit City and Tower have them available. I am going to email my contact at Mark Levinson to see what's up.

Rock

 

Lexus probably branded it that way to compete (At least in perception) to the other manufacturers OEM DVD-A car audio systems. Without DVD-A, the Mark Levinson system kind of looses its thunder in commparison. You can't really call it the best of the best if it doesn't play the best audio formats.

 

SACD is also compatable with All CD players, as they always include a PCM stereo mix. Why dont they also put SACD on the front.

Thats essentially what they are doing here.

 

Actually, not all SACDs include a PCM mix -- and those which don't simply won't play in a conventional CD or DVD player.

 

I was just listening to stone temple pilots core in my car and it had surround front and back then I jumped in my TL and it is the same in there. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean but I think you are saying you can only hear the surround from the front speakers and not the back? While I can definately hear the back as well as the front . I also burnt a few DVD-a's a little while back when I first got my TL and they worked perfectly fine in the 350 ml system as well.

 

I just picked up the Stone Temple Pilots DVD-A today as well and I'll try that... Like I said it may be just something strange about the Dual Disc format where it's DVD-A on one side and regular CD on the other....

But the surround channels just aren't there at all, things that I know are coming up in the surround mix, like a break with acoustic guitar on "The Becoming" on the NIN Downward Spiral disc just don't happen at all, there's just the sounds that would come out of the fronts and a notable absence of part of the song.

Take it inside and play it on the home theater and it sounds just fine.

 

Hmmm I am not sure what would cause that thats just confusing. Take the disc to an Acura dealership and play it in a TL if its still the same you know its just the disc.

 

I bought a couple DVD-A discs at a local electronic retailer for $10, just to give them a try. They sound ok to me. I also tried a THX setup DVD. In the test, I can definitely hear the audio jumps from speaker to speaker. On the subwoofer test, I just hear a single "tick".

 

does anyone else stuck at the "read only" stage of this thread wonder what these guys are actually listening to? All I can hear is music lol.....

all I know is my ML system sounds pretty damn good.

 

Okay, so I received 2 new DVD-A discs last night and had mixed results... I got

Stone Temple Pilots: Core
and
Frank Zappa: Halloween

I checked the Stone Temple Pilots disc in the car in DVD-A sound and it sounded good, although I haven't listened to this one in the house yet the surround appeared to be well balanced and clear.

The Frank Zappa disc I just want to state is the greatest adventure in surround mixed music I've ever heard, the mix was thoughtfully done according to the arrangement and track 8 "Zeets" a nearly 3 minute drum solo is perhaps the coolest surround demo piece I think you could ever use, with rolls and perididdles literraly flying around you.

I played the Zappa disc in my home in DTS, in the car in DTS, and in the car in the standard DVD-A format. The best track to notice this is track 8 "Zeets" with it's very obvious surround mix. It sounded phenomenal in my home theater in DTS. In the car in DTS it sounded very good, but the DTS is obviously muted and more compressed, especially at the top of the range, when compared to the DVD-A mix.

Here's the dilemma, there are still things obviously missing in the DVD-A mix. As the sound whips around clockwise you hear an obvious drop twice during this swirl effect.

My only conclusion at this point is that the player
A. Is indeed DVD-A compliant
but
B. Something specific to the mix on 3 of the 5 discs I've listened to causes spontaneous drops out of certain channels (usually in the rear)

Could it be that the mix is designating to a channel that for whatever reason isn't applied correctly during either decoding or because of some hardware limitation in the IS Mark Levinson system? I don't know... that's what it sounds like to me though.

Any other ML equipped owners in the midwest want to hook up to compare? I'm about 4 hours from Chicago, Omaha, Milwaukee, and St. Louis and I'd be willing to make a trip one of these weekends. Just drop me a line and let me know.

Side note: I know I mentioned this earlier but if you like music, unusual arrangements, enjoy talented musicians, Frank Zappa, or just plain want something to show off your surround whether at home or in the car in DTS Frank Zappa: Halloween is a great deal, around $18 on some websites and as I said before is a killer demonstration of great surround mixing.

You may now continue your forum browsing adventure...

 

Best guess is that the decoder isn't really fully compatible. Or they may have skipped a few lines of code for the DVDA. Really wierd...

Rock,

Any word from the boys at ML about this?

Percy