Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Or just find a good dealer that won't screw you on a special order.

I was getting the car for X over invoice, regardless of options, regardless of special ordering it. (and X was pretty small). I did have to wait about 2.5 months though, but I wasn't in a huge hurry (and you shouldn't be either if you want the best deal anyway).

It's unsurprising that so many cars right on the lot have nav though, it's got a huge profit margin. It's $3000 or $4000 (depending on ML or not) and so they can "knock off 2000" and you think you're geting a deal instead of paying 1-2k for a nav system that does less than a $300 garmin.



Again, don't get me wrong, for a factory nav it's pretty nice... and it looks pretty good... if it had been $1000 on top of the ML optionj I might've paid the OEM markup and done without the extra features from the aftermarket... but the economics were just horrid the way lexus (and most OEMs) price their navs. They even admit it if you refer back to the article I posted a while ago about Nav hurting resale values.

juicius

I'm >< close to buying a '07 IS350 no NAV and I was a bit concerned because my current car ('07 Camry hybrid) has NAV and I use it constantly. Bluetooth integration means I could save all my frequent destinations, and call ahead to tell'em I'm running late, or whatever, as applicable. Aside from the bluetooth phone integration, NAV is the most important feature in that car for me. (well, maybe third, after hybrid synergy system, bluetooth, and then NAV).

But I do agree that a good quality stand-alone NAVs have more features and can do a pretty good job replacing the factory one. Several I'm looking at now also has bluetooth phone integration, traffic and FM broadcast so maybe I won't miss the factory one too much.

But after this IS350, my next car will most likely have a factory NAV... I'm hoping to jump to either the LS or the IS-F.

osyrhiz

i opted to pass on the NAV, I grew up on GUAM, so I dont believe in a NAV system...

BucBaby

We just got our car last week. When we originally dealt for a price, we didn't include it. After reading this thread, and asking others here about it, I called back and actually got it for just below invoice price. We are so glad we did. The top two reasons are backup camera and hands free operation of controls. My parents got an ES350 at an excellent price because the lady who originally bought it brought it back after a few days because she wanted a backup camera. My parents were thrilled to get the car for that price, but now realize that they probably could have used it too. Visability is very hard with that car too. I've driven both and I think that the IS visablity is even more limited. I LOVE the back up camera.

The second reason we love it is we can control so many things hands free. Being able to make calls so easily and to even tell the nav. unit, "I'm hungry" is such a convenience. We've already learned about places in town that we had never been to before.

So, again, thanks guys for helping me. I guess you're all my other "navigation". You help steering me in the right direction. LOL

Bass Mech

the ONLY good reason to use an aftermarket nav system is that YOU CAN PROGRAM IT WHILE DRIVING!!!!!!

otherwise the factory nav is totally worth it.

ISF_GG

iTrader: (2)

Factory Nav is worth every penny. The back up camera is a great integrated feature of the Lexus Nav. I won't buy another car without either one!

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

....yes....

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

That... and the aftermarket system costs $2500-3500 less.

And the map updates cost $75 instead of $300.

And it can do realtime traffic info.

And it can find the nearest cheapest gas or local movie times if you get one with those features.

And it can be moved to a rental car when you fly someplace, or a spouse or friends car if using a different vehicle for a specific trip.

And it can be cheaply upgraded in a year or two when they come up with even more crazy features the factory system can never do, and still for 1/10th the cost.

Magellan

I sometimes think that those advocates of aftermarket nav systems post its advantages because, deep down, they’re really sorry they didn’t get, or couldn’t afford, factory navigation. If the truth came out they would lament the stick-on with spit appearance of them, the lack of integration with many of the car’s other functions, not having a backup camera, and the smaller screens.

It also seems likely that their next car will have factory navigation and their Garmin will end up in a forgotten drawer somewhere along with their six-track tape player, banana cell phone, and 8mm movie projector.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Dude, my car stickered for over $42,000, was special ordered with exactly what i wanted, and I paid cash.

The reason I can afford to pay cash is because I'm smart enough with my money to know to avoid paying $4000 for a factory nav that does less than my $400 garmin.

Even -Lexus- admits their nav is insanely overpriced compared to the aftermarket. (see the USA article I posted a while back in the thread about how Nav is bad for resale value too)

I think you're confusing cognitive dissonance among those who don't want to admit they overpaid for an inferior option with jealously of those smart enough not to :P

I mean really, what kind of argument is "Our system cost 10 times more and does a lot less, you must be jealous of it!"?

Something for you to think about while sitting in the traffic that folks with aftermarket systems routed them around.

Magellan

Well, for that matter my G37 is equipped with traffic alert info which unfortunately is not yet available for IS’s. I agree it’s a great option, but is available only for other Lexus’ but should be for forthcoming IS’s, and as I said before will become standard on all future cars, at least on the upscale ones.

I will admit that the nav systems for Lexus automobiles are overpriced, considering that the nav for my G37 was on $2,200 extra. But I believe that all factory navs will continue to come down in price as they become more accepted. Additionally, I have experienced that I can input destinations while driving my G37 through voice commands faster than manual inputs while stationary. So there goes that argument nav hackers love to bring up.

Accordingly, I still maintain that your Garmin will end up in that drawer somewhere as another obsolete add-on, perhaps by the time you buy your next car (for cash, of course).

tex2670

Kurtz--you may be one of the strongest advocates on CL for aftermarket nav systems. This thread has gone on for 11 PAGES--has anyone come around to your thinking? Have any portable nav proponents changed tunes?

This is an argument that has no end--why bother?

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

My garmin is already over a year old...if it ends up in a drawer in a few years (or more likely on ebay) I don't see much of a problem- especially given how little it cost compared to the Lexus option.... so I'm unsure what the point there is. Even if it does it'll still be handy to drop into rental cars when I fly as I do reasonably often, saving me the $10/day most rental places charge for that... for that use alone I've likely paid for the thing already.

To be clear, it's not the idea of OEM nav I have a problem with- it's the specific version offered in most cars, that is vastly overpriced and underfeatured compared to what the aftermarket offers.

If Lexus offered me, say, a $1000 option that did everything current $500 Garmins do, plus the backup camera and built into the dash and all then it would've been part of my build.

Instead they wanted $3000, which is plainly nuts.

When I test drove a G35s I appreciated the nav system offered traffic and lacked the cripple-while-driving the Lexus system did... (and was priced more reasonably too) and it's entirely possible I would've opted for that feature had I not decided the IS350 fit my needs better than the G did.


The point of the thread was to ask if the current nav option offered on the IS350 is worth it, and given the vastly cheaper, better, alternatives, it really isn't. That's not to say it's not a useful feature, and I'd hate anymore to have a vehicle with -no- nav ability regardless of where it comes from, I just think the specific offering here isn't, as the thread itself asks, "worth it"

njmurvin

I bought my IS350 as a CPO (w/15k mi) and it does not have factory NAV. For me, there was only the choice (that day) of the one I bought and an IS250 with a NAV and I wanted an IS350. If there had been another exactly like mine that had the NAV and it was priced $3K more than mine, I think my practical (read "cheap") self would have chosen to take the non-NAV version anyway.

That said, I own the Garmin 680 and I mostly like it. For me, it gets far more use as a handsfree phone than a GPS. I usually know where I'm going. As a handsfree phone, it's pretty good - but clearly not as good as the factory unit would be. I have an IPhone. So, I have to dial the phone from the Garmin (no voice dialing). Also, I don't care for the crappy speaker on the Garmin. I've tried the FM modulator and it's OK. Listeners on the other end complain of feedback when I'm in that mode.

The other complaint I have about the Garmin is that I have to hide it and all traces of it (mount, etc.) when I leave the car in a parking lot. All the stories about these things being stolen have me paranoid.

On balance, the portability, functionality and cost advantages of the Garmin are offset by the coolness, worry-freeness (from theft) and bluetooth advantages of the factory system. I'd call it a push.

meefer

iTrader: (8)

No Nav, no regrets. And I'm a gadget *****.

I have an old bluetooth GPS antenna and a PDA. Of the exactly 2 times I have needed navigation in the past year, it's been fine.

I'd rather use the $2500 towards a 60" Pionner Kuro anyways (totally OT).