Nav System - Worth it?
01-23-08 | 03:13 PM
#181
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,166
Likes: 11
From: Southeastern PA
I think arguing in favor of the NAV or the NAV/ML options as "value" purchases is really a non-starter. They are a luxury option on a luxury car, although that gets less true every year.
I've been involved with this debate for a long time and it comes down to each potential buyers use habits, sense of aesthetics and even that nagging sense of "coulda had" that eats at the gut of some people. For some people just avoiding that feeling is well worth that $4,000.(and I'm not kidding)
As far as functionality the NAV (and to a lesser extent the NAV/ML) is a dubious value in dollars and cents vis a vis after market units and therefore a very high profit option for the manufacturer.
My parents have one in their Lexus RX and used it exclusively when they took a two-month road trip across the United States. They felt that trip alone "paid" for the unit, I disagree, but to them it was a smart buy and who can argue with them. Like I said it is a personal thing.
One thing to keep in mind if you are going to keep your car for long time is that if it ever fails out of warranty, however unlikely that happens to be for a particular NAV unit, the cost of replacement will be, I suspect, very large indeed and necessary because of the level of integration of other functions.
I've been involved with this debate for a long time and it comes down to each potential buyers use habits, sense of aesthetics and even that nagging sense of "coulda had" that eats at the gut of some people. For some people just avoiding that feeling is well worth that $4,000.(and I'm not kidding)
As far as functionality the NAV (and to a lesser extent the NAV/ML) is a dubious value in dollars and cents vis a vis after market units and therefore a very high profit option for the manufacturer.
My parents have one in their Lexus RX and used it exclusively when they took a two-month road trip across the United States. They felt that trip alone "paid" for the unit, I disagree, but to them it was a smart buy and who can argue with them. Like I said it is a personal thing.
One thing to keep in mind if you are going to keep your car for long time is that if it ever fails out of warranty, however unlikely that happens to be for a particular NAV unit, the cost of replacement will be, I suspect, very large indeed and necessary because of the level of integration of other functions.
And the debate continues...
01-23-08 | 04:12 PM
#182
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 737
Likes: 1
From: CA
01-23-08 | 08:44 PM
#183
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 897
Likes: 9
From: colorado
your never going to win an argument against someone who says they want a garmin verses a factory nav system.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
01-23-08 | 09:03 PM
#184
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,166
Likes: 11
From: Southeastern PA
your never going to win an argument against someone who says they want a garmin verses a factory nav system.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
Different people place their priorities in different places--it's not all about what is the maximum amount of $$ a person can afford.
And the inability to see this point is why this debate rages on.
01-23-08 | 09:24 PM
#186
Pole Position
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: WA
Maybe it just comes down to *why* you bought the car. I paid $500 extra to ship a car from Cali to WA because all the is350's here in WA back in '06 had nav and I didn't want it. I bought the car because it had 306hp, rwd, Toyota reliability, and styling that I liked. Thats it. Buying a nav for me personally would be about as useful as getting ML, which is 0 since I only listen to fm radio in the car. The only possible reason for someone like me to want nav or ML would be to say I had it, but who would I be telling that to? Myself?
To those that bought the car for other reasons, I can understand wanting every feature, that doesn't mean that everyone that didn't get nav wishes they had it. To be honest, in regard to the Honda comment, if they sold the hp and the rwd platform stock and beat the is350's price, I don't see why I wouldn't have bought one instead, after all the decision was really between an Evo and the 350, I just questioned the reliability of a 19psi stock turbo engine.
To those that bought the car for other reasons, I can understand wanting every feature, that doesn't mean that everyone that didn't get nav wishes they had it. To be honest, in regard to the Honda comment, if they sold the hp and the rwd platform stock and beat the is350's price, I don't see why I wouldn't have bought one instead, after all the decision was really between an Evo and the 350, I just questioned the reliability of a 19psi stock turbo engine.
01-24-08 | 06:30 AM
#187
BTW- there absolutely ARE aftermarket systems that do dead reckoning just like the factory system (knowing where you are by spedo and other measures)... there's aftermarket systems with voice activation too if that's important to ya... and big screens for that matter...)
As for the "there's always cheaper cars" logic-
But those cars do -not- do most fo the same things.
Like I said, find me a Honda that has 300+ hp, is RWD, or offers as many luxury features, for less than I paid for my Lexus. Ain't such an animal.
Whereas you -can- find nav systems in the aftermarket nassively cheaper that do -more- than the factory system does.
That's why that's a horrible analogy.
As for the "there's always cheaper cars" logic-
But those cars do -not- do most fo the same things.
Like I said, find me a Honda that has 300+ hp, is RWD, or offers as many luxury features, for less than I paid for my Lexus. Ain't such an animal.
Whereas you -can- find nav systems in the aftermarket nassively cheaper that do -more- than the factory system does.
That's why that's a horrible analogy.
Last edited by Kurtz; 01-24-08 at 06:37 AM.
01-24-08 | 06:35 AM
#188
your never going to win an argument against someone who says they want a garmin verses a factory nav system.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
its human nature to justify to yourself you made the wise decision. for someone who doesnt have the factory nav deep down they wish they did so they will justify and bring their own logic so it will make them feel better about their decision. its a little like self brain washing, if you can convince yourself and a few others you made the right choice then eventually you begin to believe it also.
ive always said and i will say it again, if you cannot afford to spend the extra money for the nav system or get all the options you wanted then maybe you should have bought a less expensive car or no car at all.
i see so many people say they want a certain car but they cannot afford it unless its not the fully loaded model.
if the difference between being able to afford a car and not being able to afford one is the difference of 40-60 dollars a month then you got no business buying it in the first place.
buying the lexus or in my case leasing it was an easy decision because my budget would easily allow me to purchase 2 of them and still make the payments on both. so when faced with the decision to buy my car i got the one with every option included.
so trying to justify to me or anyone who got the nav is a pointless argument because if the money was an issue i would not have got the lexus and would have got an acura instead.
Again, this logic is completely backward.
it's called cognative dissonace (rationalizing a poor decision) and it's what you Nav owners are doing.
You're argument is Hey! I paid a lot more to get a lot less! You must be jealous!
And frankly it sounds ridiculous.
Like I said, I paid cash for my car, with ML, sports package, special order. I could've had anything I wanted on it. I was smart enough to NOT get Nav
I understand many folks needed a car faster, or couldn't find a dealer willing to special order, so they didn't have much choice in spending thousands more for a system that does less. Many also bought the car a couple years ago now when aftermaket systems weren't nearly as good as they are now and the factory system made sense if you wanted some of those features AT ALL...But insisting such a choice makes them worthy of envy is pretty backward thinking.
01-24-08 | 09:39 AM
#189
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 13,441
Likes: 1,065
From: Under an IS F since 2008
^^ Really.. You guys are going to have to agree to dis-agree....
I've been following this thread for a while and figured I would add some input.
I made sure I Special Ordered my 2008 with Nav & ML..
VN Option is $3,990 Msrp & $3,302 Dealer Invoice
I did not pay MSRP.
Besides having everything listed below, the touch screen provides a wonderful display & Full control of the Radio, Climate, Parking Assist, Phone Address Book, Calendar, Maintenance Reminder, etc, etc, etc....
NOW, how does this whole Pkg compare to an aftermarket Garmin or equivalent??
In my honest opinion... It just doesn't...
P.S. - I personally enjoy the OEM set up I have and would NOT trade it for an aftermarket Nav system, an aftermarket Back up Camera, an aftermarket TV Screen, an aftermarket Radio/speakers or an aftermarket DVD Player..
^^ It may "cost" less than an OEM system, but it will still NOT do all the extra things like the Integrated OEM Nav does and it sure won't look OEM either.
I Love my poor decision...!
"To each his own"
Joe Z
I've been following this thread for a while and figured I would add some input.
I made sure I Special Ordered my 2008 with Nav & ML..
VN Option is $3,990 Msrp & $3,302 Dealer Invoice
I did not pay MSRP.
Besides having everything listed below, the touch screen provides a wonderful display & Full control of the Radio, Climate, Parking Assist, Phone Address Book, Calendar, Maintenance Reminder, etc, etc, etc....
NOW, how does this whole Pkg compare to an aftermarket Garmin or equivalent??
In my honest opinion... It just doesn't...
Originally Posted by Lexus.com
Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Premium Audio System Package $3,990
Voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera and Bluetooth® technology
Mark Levinson 14-speaker 300-watt at less than 0.1% THD, 20-20,000 Hz Premium Surround Sound Audio System with 7.1 architecture and in-dash, single-feed, six-disc DVD/CD auto-changer featuring DVD-audio and DVD-video playback
Voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera and Bluetooth® technology
Mark Levinson 14-speaker 300-watt at less than 0.1% THD, 20-20,000 Hz Premium Surround Sound Audio System with 7.1 architecture and in-dash, single-feed, six-disc DVD/CD auto-changer featuring DVD-audio and DVD-video playback
^^ It may "cost" less than an OEM system, but it will still NOT do all the extra things like the Integrated OEM Nav does and it sure won't look OEM either.
I Love my poor decision...!
"To each his own"
Joe Z
01-24-08 | 10:45 AM
#190
It does everything the OEM nav does except-
Display DVDs (which isn't relevant for over 90% of IS buyers since they don't have ML either, and you'll need to hack your wiring if you want to do it in motion too, at which point you could've just wired your own hardware in too)
Have a backup camera. And actually, some GPSs -can- display a backup camera too, you just need to install the camera, which is kinda beyond the scope of the thread, but not really much harder than the rewiring you did to be able to watch DVDs in motion
That's it...
You can already control all the car features with the non-nav dash just fine, and the aftermarket GPS can handle your hands-free calling, phone book, calendar, etc... PLUS all the stuff the OEM unit -can not- do like realtime traffic, finding the nearest cheapest gas, local movie times, music/audiobooks/photos from memory cards, etc...
Another nice feature with the Garmin is you can run the software on your PC and upload info to the GPS... so you can pre-plan a trip on your PC, adding your own custom waypoints and whatever routing you want to take, then upload the whole thing to the GPS in a couple minutes.... not to mention the cheap/easy map updates they offer.
Oh, I guess it won't display park assist either... I didn't bother with PA since the IS350 is a tiny car and dead easy to park...but the non-nav PA just uses the multi-display in the dash instead.
I'm not sure why you bring up the radio or speakers, neither has anything to do with Nav. I have the ML version of both in my special order without Nav no problems.
So anyway, we're back to the aftermarket system leaves you able to do just about everything the factory one does, and a whole lot more, for a lot less money.
It's true that the actual GPS unit will have to sit ON the dash instead of IN the dash, but that's about it. If that single difference, in exchange for losing a ton of abilities, is worth a few thousand bucks more, go for it.
Display DVDs (which isn't relevant for over 90% of IS buyers since they don't have ML either, and you'll need to hack your wiring if you want to do it in motion too, at which point you could've just wired your own hardware in too)
Have a backup camera. And actually, some GPSs -can- display a backup camera too, you just need to install the camera, which is kinda beyond the scope of the thread, but not really much harder than the rewiring you did to be able to watch DVDs in motion
That's it...
You can already control all the car features with the non-nav dash just fine, and the aftermarket GPS can handle your hands-free calling, phone book, calendar, etc... PLUS all the stuff the OEM unit -can not- do like realtime traffic, finding the nearest cheapest gas, local movie times, music/audiobooks/photos from memory cards, etc...
Another nice feature with the Garmin is you can run the software on your PC and upload info to the GPS... so you can pre-plan a trip on your PC, adding your own custom waypoints and whatever routing you want to take, then upload the whole thing to the GPS in a couple minutes.... not to mention the cheap/easy map updates they offer.
Oh, I guess it won't display park assist either... I didn't bother with PA since the IS350 is a tiny car and dead easy to park...but the non-nav PA just uses the multi-display in the dash instead.
I'm not sure why you bring up the radio or speakers, neither has anything to do with Nav. I have the ML version of both in my special order without Nav no problems.
So anyway, we're back to the aftermarket system leaves you able to do just about everything the factory one does, and a whole lot more, for a lot less money.
It's true that the actual GPS unit will have to sit ON the dash instead of IN the dash, but that's about it. If that single difference, in exchange for losing a ton of abilities, is worth a few thousand bucks more, go for it.
Last edited by Kurtz; 01-24-08 at 10:54 AM.
01-24-08 | 11:06 AM
#192
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 8
From: Oregon
Agree. There is enough good information in this thread for prospective owners to make up their own minds.
As I mentioned previously, I don't think there is a blanket right or wrong answer here. Choice is good and we should be happy that there are options available so everyone can be satisfied with their decision to:
1. drive around lost and be too proud to ask for directions in unfamiliar areas
2. print out mapquest directions
3. spend a couple bucks on a map that you'll never be able to fold back up correctly
4. use/get a cell phone that has nav capabilities
5. get an aftermarket nav
6. get the factory nav
7. have a driver
8. hire a limo
Because one feels that a particular choice is the best or 'right' one only makes that choice the best or right one for him/her. If it were indeed 'right' for everyone, there would only be 1 option. To proclaim that their choice should be 'right' for another without knowing that person's background, upbringing, economic status, priorities/preferences, etc., is very presumptuous and (since we're throwing around psych terms) egocentric.
As I mentioned previously, I don't think there is a blanket right or wrong answer here. Choice is good and we should be happy that there are options available so everyone can be satisfied with their decision to:
1. drive around lost and be too proud to ask for directions in unfamiliar areas
2. print out mapquest directions
3. spend a couple bucks on a map that you'll never be able to fold back up correctly
4. use/get a cell phone that has nav capabilities
5. get an aftermarket nav
6. get the factory nav
7. have a driver
8. hire a limo
Because one feels that a particular choice is the best or 'right' one only makes that choice the best or right one for him/her. If it were indeed 'right' for everyone, there would only be 1 option. To proclaim that their choice should be 'right' for another without knowing that person's background, upbringing, economic status, priorities/preferences, etc., is very presumptuous and (since we're throwing around psych terms) egocentric.
01-24-08 | 11:10 AM
#193
FWIW I never suggest one choice was "right" for everyone.
I said one choice (of the two major ones under discussion) was clearly the better bang for the buck.
Which was, ya know, the question the thread starter asked.
I said one choice (of the two major ones under discussion) was clearly the better bang for the buck.
Which was, ya know, the question the thread starter asked.
01-24-08 | 01:03 PM
#194
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 737
Likes: 1
From: CA
I really wish you would stop trying to get the last word. Please, give it up. Very few here agree with you and they’re not likely to change their minds. By arguing every single point ad nauseam you diminish your own credibility. Enjoy your Garmin and let us all move on.
01-24-08 | 01:06 PM
#195
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 733
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta, GA
Good discussion, and to each is own on Navi or not. It could be more about your situation though...
My situation was that I regreted not getting the Navi from the dealer about a month afterwards as my brother and I bought 350's on the same night and his was loaded and several thousand more expensive and mine is a base 350.
One thing I did consider was because I could not pay the car off from the get-go, I had to finance 21K with LFS. They gave me a poor rate and I did not want to finance any additional money than what a base 350 costs. As it turned out my car was paid in 12 months anyways.
the base Navi package at the time was like $2500 additional. If you had to finance for like 4years then you have to add all that interest too...because the Navi and Levinson etc...is all on the back of the loan.
Now if $$$ is no object, then...go for it.
I still wish I had of done it too in some ways because it looks cleaner. I have a vent mount for my Garmin, but still have to figure better solution for the power cord/antennae...just not as clean looking coming down from my vent. But I have saved alot of money and have a far more versatile device. $$$$$ aftermaket is more affordable and more flexible. IMHO.
I have the garmin Nuvi 760 now, got it for about $500 new (online NYC stores cheapest). It is a top-of-line Garmin auto product and is very nice. I did a lot of research, but I am not going to blab about my product because it is proven to be awesome.
The only thing I do not have now is a backup camera, but I have seen it used extensively and I do not need it. It is cool to showoff for some who have never seen it.
NUVI NUVI NUVI
My situation was that I regreted not getting the Navi from the dealer about a month afterwards as my brother and I bought 350's on the same night and his was loaded and several thousand more expensive and mine is a base 350.
One thing I did consider was because I could not pay the car off from the get-go, I had to finance 21K with LFS. They gave me a poor rate and I did not want to finance any additional money than what a base 350 costs. As it turned out my car was paid in 12 months anyways.
the base Navi package at the time was like $2500 additional. If you had to finance for like 4years then you have to add all that interest too...because the Navi and Levinson etc...is all on the back of the loan.
Now if $$$ is no object, then...go for it.
I still wish I had of done it too in some ways because it looks cleaner. I have a vent mount for my Garmin, but still have to figure better solution for the power cord/antennae...just not as clean looking coming down from my vent. But I have saved alot of money and have a far more versatile device. $$$$$ aftermaket is more affordable and more flexible. IMHO.
I have the garmin Nuvi 760 now, got it for about $500 new (online NYC stores cheapest). It is a top-of-line Garmin auto product and is very nice. I did a lot of research, but I am not going to blab about my product because it is proven to be awesome.
The only thing I do not have now is a backup camera, but I have seen it used extensively and I do not need it. It is cool to showoff for some who have never seen it.
NUVI NUVI NUVI
Last edited by sirCharles; 01-24-08 at 02:21 PM.