dong888

iTrader: (1)

I still do not understand why people have a hard time deciding between IS and ES. I thought these two are in two different categories. You can not really compare apple and orange.

To me, the choices are very simple:

Smooth ride and comfort -> go for ES for Camry.
Performance ride and handling -> go for IS

Just ask yourself which factor you value more.

XeroK00L

ES = nothing in the MB and BMW's lineup. Its closest competitors are instead the Audi A6 3.2 FWD and the Buick LaCrosse CXS.

Style2k6

Actually I think the ES looks like the Avalon and the base prices are about the same .

TimboIS

Price and size. It competes EXACTLY with 3-series in that regard, and Toyota/Lexus sales reflect that fact.

XeroK00L

Price yes, but size? Are you serious?

Again, just because two cars are priced similarly doesn't mean they're in the same market segment. The ES belongs to the midsize entry luxury and the 3 belongs to the compact entry luxury sport. Is that very hard to see?

XeroK00L

Oh yeah, and the Avalon Limited competes directly with the ES as well.

Style2k6

I think the ES is closer to the 5 series

XeroK00L

But due to drivetrain layout and significant price differences, they are not in the same segment. Again, the ES competes with nothing in the MB and BMW's lineup.

bagwell

I agree...the ES doesn't compete with the 3 series at all -- (except in price) its in a completely different category. No 3 series buyers will be looking at the ES and vice versa.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

The ES comparison to the 3 series is a stretch. While pricewise, they are similar, the ES is a larger family oriented luxury sedan. The IS and 3 series are not family sedans.

I would take the IS250 on looks. When you buy an ES, most people think... Camry. When you have an IS, you have a Lexus.

Style2k6

Again when I think Es I think Avalon not Camry and yes agreed the Is is lexus all the way .

TimboIS

Then the GS fits where?!? GS and Avalon are in the same category as 5 Series (size, etc).

XeroK00L

My gosh, the GS is what competes directly with the 5 and the E-Class in the midsize luxury sport segment. The much cheaper, FWD Avalon is an entry-luxury cruiser has no sport in it whatsoever at all. It competes with the ES and LaCrosse and Zephyr and the like.

Trexus

I agree and I'd like to add more...

ES/IS = C Class, 3 Series, A4, I35/G35
GS = E Class, 5 Series, A6, M35/45
LS = S Class, 7 Series, A8, Q45

XeroK00L

I35 and G35 in the same market? I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Some people like to use price as the sole differentiator while I prefer considering the "target audience" as well. Both are valid in different ways I guess.