gsrthomas

iTrader: (1)

I think the ES350 does compete with BMW, Mercedes, and Audi.

Your average buyer could car less if the car is FWD or RWD.

ISMaximus

I had an ES330 overnight when I dropped of the IS to have the crome wheels installed. It was certainly bigger but didn't have the iPod hookup and the steering felt totally numb to me. Not to mention it is FWD.

Completely different car IMO. No comparison.

The ES is and always will be a glorified Camry.

ISMaximus

Not true at all. I think most people who would buy a BMW, Mercedes or Audi do care. Those who don't are going for the prestige in which case they don't care but they still won't buy a Lexus.

LexFather

This is mostly correct, please everyone don't argue otherwise. SIZE, does not make the class. Otherwise the ES/TL and G35 would be the the GS/5/E class and that is hogwash.

Lexus is the only luxury carmaker that has proven it can sell 2 cars at the same price and they can have buyers for both and both will sell.

Infiniti tried to copy Lexus and failed miserably with the G35/I35. Like most Infiniti's the I35 got discontinued.

The IS is more of a world car being sold in Europe, thus the German proportions and dimensions. The ES is sold here, in Japan and Aisa, not in Germany, where it would not be well recieved (too cushy).

For those that call the ES a gloried Camry, they really need to check themselves b/c the ES has been the best selling Lexus sedan for what, 15 years and has been a hit for Lexus year after year after year. If the ES would have failed, there probably would not have been an IS. The ES is a perfect example of great platform sharing.

ES profits= money to build and experiment with other cars, like the IS.

The 1IS was blessed with its own platform and the 2IS is based off a shortned GS platform

Rockville

because it doesn't match its Euro competition with just the ES. Due to the over the top content on the new ES350 and the moniker and size I now am seeing the customer comparing it to the E350 Mercedes and wondering what more they can get for the extra 10-15,000 dollars. As they are not enthusiasts generally they might have a preference for FWD from their own challenges with snow. Some will want the E350 4MATIC for this task but they also want value. The prestige of the Mercedes has tarnished with recent lapses in reliability so they are aware that Lexus has its own cachet and that its reputation is unsullied. I was at first shocked by the E-ES comparison but that's what's happening now in the showroom......

The IS250 is a single person's car for pilot and wingman or date. The rear seat toe room is painful. It will do with a child safety seat for a few years at best. I enjoy driving the IS250 and even though it is not a slug it could still use more guts. The GS300 engine would help the entry IS but there isn't any plan for that. I am still perplexed why Lexus would introduce a new engine in the GS300 only to retire it the following year.....Ironically the ES350 outperforms the IS250 yet has the turning feel of a deep V hull. The interior of the IS250/350 is smartly laid out and a joy to behold. It owes no apologies like the first gen's raceboy interior styling. The next upgrade would be to offer the HID/AFS headlights as a stand alone option or better yet standard. BMW was the intended target and the IS series will have to be taken seriously now. When future iterations like a coupe/convertible start drawing more attention to Lexus it will get even more respect here and in Europe....

Rock

igotanewis

When i was looking to buy, my choice came down to the is250 vs.the '07 Camry SE V6.

Why did I pay $5K more for a smaller, weaker, slower car?

It was the looks and uniqueness. All the Camry's and ES's look the same to me, and everybody and their brother has one.


Is there some technical reason that the Camry engine could not be put in the IS250? After all, the '07 Camry engine has greater horsepower, with the same mileage, and propels a car of similar weight. To a 'layman' such as myself, that seems to represent superior technology.

Ken7

Yeah, I don't know why Toyota did that. The last ES looked very different than the Camry, but now they've merged again. Weird.

terp05

iTrader: (1)

I've had the luxury of having an es330 and an es350 as loaner cars and i was completely blown away when i got in the es350 and drove it. Still has the same cushy steering wheel but overall much more responsive on the handling end (not on the IS level though) and definitely more powerful than my is250 awd. I was impressed with the bluetooth phone option without NAV- and the wood trim was toned down from the unsightly orange that I had in the 330.

My opinion when I drove the es330: I would never buy this car- my IS is much nicer
My opinion when I drove the es350: I would definitely buy this car

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

The IS was robbed. The ES can get HIDs for $850, and they can buy bluetooth seperately

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

if the rumors are true and if they discontinue the sports package they better offer HID seperately, theres no way im gonna buy the lux package

Trexus

I like your screen name igotanewis. I should change my screen name to iwantanewis...

S2000toIS350

My 350 is in the shop again today to deal with the TPMs (for the fifth or it is the seventh time?)
and to my surprise and my passenger's amazement I got an 07 ES 350 loaner.

The car is a perfect example of evolution.

The exterior is the least inspired on the L finesse cars but hey its a camry in disguise.

Same roomy solid feel as the 330 but tastefully modernized.

The leather/ wood/ plastic stuff is comparable to the new IS.

The dash is good stuff compared to the 330, much more modern and fitting the L finesse family.

The center stack is not my favorite but it has a cool asymmetrical design element at the top.

The armrest opens in two directions at once (a bit odd but give them points for trying)

The power and ipod connectors are in the inner front face of the armrest box so you have to feel for them instead of see them.

The driving experience is still on the soft side but certainly better than in the 330.

The new power helps a lot.

I would defer on the overall class part as I have not seen a really loaded new ES (panarama roof, etc..).

dreyfus

My ES350 is in the shop for some work so now I'm driving an IS250 loaner.

The IS is the best looking car on the road today, IMO. However, after test driving both IS models I found it too small and stiff riding for my taste.

The luxury, comfort, room, and bells & whistles of the ES definitely beat out the IS. Having said that, the ES has ponderous steering and handling. It floats across the highway.

The IS is much tighter, responsive, and stiff in it's handling. The IS350 is faster than the ES350 and the IS250 is slower - it's just an awfully underpowered car. But both IS models are nimble and much sportier than the ES350.

This is as it should be. Those looking for quiet and luxury can go for the ES350, while performance lovers will go for the IS350. The IS250 is a nice car, but it's eclipsed in all aspects by these other two.

Having also driven the new Avalon and Camry I definitely take exception to those who think these cars are like the ES350. The feel and drive and utter luxury of the ES350 is not to be compared with either car. The power train has been tweaked between the models to give different power curves, performance, and mileage. The sharper lines of the ES350 are better looking too.

As for cost, everything but the fully-loaded ES350 can be had for under $40K. This cannot be said of the GS models, which add another $10K and give poorer performance and gas mileage. Some have complained about the GS looking too much like a hatchback, though I don't share that sentiment.

To each his/her own. I couldn't consider the BMWs or the Mercedes due to their abysmal reliability. The IS lacked the back seat I needed, while the ES350 had the features, luxury, comfort, and size I wanted at a price I could afford, all with that famous Lexus service & quality. I like the looks, too.

Those of you who own the IS350 have a great car. Even the IS250 is a nice ride. But as an ES350 owner, I value other aspects more than performance.

But the IS parked in my garage right now is a fine-looking ride!

kingpcgeek

Leasing both an 05 G35 Sedan and an 06 IS250 I can tell you they are both in the same market. Positives to the IS250 include exterior/interior styling and MPG. Positives to the G35 include the horsepower and much better value. My IS250 payment is a $100 more then the G35, and I shopped every dealer in the Phoenix area. At the same time I shopped for an 06 G35 and payments were coming in around $20 more then my 05, but I was putting less down then what I did for the 05, but the same that I put down for the 06 IS250.

I'll take the memory seats/tilt, HID's, full size spare/matching wheel over the anemic cooled seats since those are the main options that differ between the two "base" (normally configured) models. I would have liked the option on the IS to not have to replace tires every 15,000 miles since all they sell here is 18" summer tire models.

I know that the IS350 has the better horsepower, but it wasn't worth another $80 a month to get it, which would have put it $180 a month over the G35. I do feel more confident/safe driving in freeway traffic with the G's 289HP over the IS's 205HP.

I'm really looking forward to the 07 G35 to see how its styling compares to the IS. I have seen pictures but side to side is where it really matters. If they capture some of the aggressive sportiness that the IS has then the Infiniti's value for the buck including the bump up to 306 HP it going to make it a much closer race.

XeroK00L

Ahem. I was talking about the I35 vs. the G35 not the IS350/250 vs. the G35.

For sure I agree that IS350/250 are in the same market segment as the G35. But the I35 belonged to the ES300 market.