Locked Out
06-03-06, 02:33 PM
#17
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Well thanks to Moneyfarm's comment, we were finally able to reproduce our "incident".
We placed my fob (husband, driver #2) in the driver seat back - simulating the position that it was while placed in my briefcase.
We put my wife's fob (driver #1) in the trunk with the trunk lid open.
Based on the assumption that jostling of luggage in the trunk may have accidently caused her fob lock button to be depressed, we pressed the lock button and the car beeped one short beep and locked the doors - with my fob in the car and her's in the trunk!
We then closed the trunk and heard a single (about 2 sec) beep.
All doors locked - both fobs in the car!
At least this time we were smart enough to keep the manual pass key out and were able to gain entry into the trunk.
I have also reproduced this situation with only a single fob in the trunk, so it's not a matter of the two fobs fighting with each other or confusing the computer.
I feel that this is clearly a flaw in the smart key security logic in that it is very easy to accidently lock your car with the fob in the trunk. You can lock the car via the fob in the trunk and the single long warning beeb would seem to indicate that the car detects that the fob is there, but the doors remain locked nonetheless.
Now the challenge will be to have Lexus admit it and cover the cost of repairing the damage that the dealership caused trying to open my wife's car - not to mention the costs we incurred by missing flights, delayed vacation, time away from work, emotional duress, etc.!
IMHO - smart key isn't so smart afterall.... my wife's new is350 is now called HAL as in "Open the pod bay door HAL..... Sorry I can't do that Dave."
We placed my fob (husband, driver #2) in the driver seat back - simulating the position that it was while placed in my briefcase.
We put my wife's fob (driver #1) in the trunk with the trunk lid open.
Based on the assumption that jostling of luggage in the trunk may have accidently caused her fob lock button to be depressed, we pressed the lock button and the car beeped one short beep and locked the doors - with my fob in the car and her's in the trunk!
We then closed the trunk and heard a single (about 2 sec) beep.
All doors locked - both fobs in the car!
At least this time we were smart enough to keep the manual pass key out and were able to gain entry into the trunk.
I have also reproduced this situation with only a single fob in the trunk, so it's not a matter of the two fobs fighting with each other or confusing the computer.
I feel that this is clearly a flaw in the smart key security logic in that it is very easy to accidently lock your car with the fob in the trunk. You can lock the car via the fob in the trunk and the single long warning beeb would seem to indicate that the car detects that the fob is there, but the doors remain locked nonetheless.
Now the challenge will be to have Lexus admit it and cover the cost of repairing the damage that the dealership caused trying to open my wife's car - not to mention the costs we incurred by missing flights, delayed vacation, time away from work, emotional duress, etc.!
IMHO - smart key isn't so smart afterall.... my wife's new is350 is now called HAL as in "Open the pod bay door HAL..... Sorry I can't do that Dave."
06-03-06, 02:47 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by mkivbadger
Based on the assumption that jostling of luggage in the trunk may have accidently caused her fob lock button to be depressed, we pressed the lock button and the car beeped one short beep and locked the doors - with my fob in the car and her's in the trunk!
06-03-06, 02:55 PM
#19
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Why cant we use the second key fob to lock the doors when the engine is running? but when TWO keys are in the car and you push the lock it'll lock all the doors? Doenst make sense... not very consistant.
06-03-06, 03:00 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Wow, this thread really took a turn. You know you can practice these scenarios with the windows down so you don't have to use the emergency key LOL.
Anyway so why don't you try this, climb inside the car with the key fob in your hand, click on the LOCK button, see what the car does?
It will lock up LOL. That is how it is designed and I hope Lexus doesn't change that. If I understand your post correctly, the button was accidently pressed as though a person had physically pressed the LOCK button on the key fob?
Help me understand how that is Lexus' fault? If you can reproduce this without pressing the key fob buttons, you might have something but until then....good luck.
If there is a key fob inside the car and it is detected by the system, the only way to get car to lock is to manually press a key fob button. Which apparently is what accidently happened but the system doesn't know if it's an accident or not. Imagine a key fob placed somewhere in the car (who knows where) leaving the driver unable to lock the car when he holding the key in his hand.
Anyway so why don't you try this, climb inside the car with the key fob in your hand, click on the LOCK button, see what the car does?
It will lock up LOL. That is how it is designed and I hope Lexus doesn't change that. If I understand your post correctly, the button was accidently pressed as though a person had physically pressed the LOCK button on the key fob?
Help me understand how that is Lexus' fault? If you can reproduce this without pressing the key fob buttons, you might have something but until then....good luck.
If there is a key fob inside the car and it is detected by the system, the only way to get car to lock is to manually press a key fob button. Which apparently is what accidently happened but the system doesn't know if it's an accident or not. Imagine a key fob placed somewhere in the car (who knows where) leaving the driver unable to lock the car when he holding the key in his hand.
06-03-06, 03:06 PM
#21
I was going to say more but the last two pretty much summed it up.
So, all I'll say is this -
You locked your car with your key, and then you shut your key in the trunk. You would get the same result with any other car ever produced on this planet. The blame is all on you. Forgive me if I'm too blunt.
So, all I'll say is this -
You locked your car with your key, and then you shut your key in the trunk. You would get the same result with any other car ever produced on this planet. The blame is all on you. Forgive me if I'm too blunt.
06-03-06, 03:10 PM
#22
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cant you just open the trunk since the key is inside the trunk ?
i know u can hold the little trunk button from the outside if you got the key in your pocket and the trunk will open..
i guess you tried and it didnt work.
sorry to hear you had so much trouble
i know u can hold the little trunk button from the outside if you got the key in your pocket and the trunk will open..
i guess you tried and it didnt work.
sorry to hear you had so much trouble
06-03-06, 03:21 PM
#23
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Not sure what you meant by this thread taking a turn, except that this was my first post on this issue and the earlier ones were posted by my wife.
I still contend that the system has a fundamental logic flaw. Yes, you can press the fob lock button while you and the fob are in the car and it will lock - this is OK. However, you cannot press the fob lock while sitting in the car with the door open and then close the door to have the fob locked in the car.
However, you can press the lock button on the fob while in the trunk with the trunk open and it will lock. When you then close the trunk, you will get a 2 second continuous beep that basically indicates that you are screwed because at that point you cannot retrieve your key and all of the doors are locked. This is obviously not OK. Can you tell me what is the value of the warning beep at that point?
It does not appear that you can readily lock the vehicle with the fob in the passenger compartment, but it is apparently very easy to lock the vehicle with the fob in the trunk.
Further, as we unfortunately experienced, you CAN lock the vehicle with a fob in the car AND in the trunk. We have 6 cars, and have locked ourselves out many times and one of the appeals to us for the Lexus smart key system, was our undertsanding that it would protect us from our own stupidity... apparently not!
I still contend that the system has a fundamental logic flaw. Yes, you can press the fob lock button while you and the fob are in the car and it will lock - this is OK. However, you cannot press the fob lock while sitting in the car with the door open and then close the door to have the fob locked in the car.
However, you can press the lock button on the fob while in the trunk with the trunk open and it will lock. When you then close the trunk, you will get a 2 second continuous beep that basically indicates that you are screwed because at that point you cannot retrieve your key and all of the doors are locked. This is obviously not OK. Can you tell me what is the value of the warning beep at that point?
It does not appear that you can readily lock the vehicle with the fob in the passenger compartment, but it is apparently very easy to lock the vehicle with the fob in the trunk.
Further, as we unfortunately experienced, you CAN lock the vehicle with a fob in the car AND in the trunk. We have 6 cars, and have locked ourselves out many times and one of the appeals to us for the Lexus smart key system, was our undertsanding that it would protect us from our own stupidity... apparently not!
Last edited by mkivbadger; 06-03-06 at 04:31 PM.
06-03-06, 04:33 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by mkivbadger
Not sure what you meant by this thread taking a turn, except that this was my first post on this issue and the earlier ones were posted by my wife.
I still contend that the system has a fundamental logic flaw. Yes, you can press the fob lock button while you and the fob are in the car and it will lock - this is OK. However, you cannot press the fob lock whilte sitting in the car with the door open and then close the door to have the fob locked in the car.
However, you can press the lock button on the fob while in the trunk with the trunk open and it will lock. When you then close the trunk, you will get a 2 second continuous beep that basically indicates that you are screwed because at that point you cannot retrieve your key and all of the doors are locked. This is obviously not OK. Can you tell me what is the value of the warning beep at that point?
It does not appear that you can readily lock the vehicle with the fob in the passenger compartment, but it is apparently very easy to lock the vehicle with the fob in the trunk.
I still contend that the system has a fundamental logic flaw. Yes, you can press the fob lock button while you and the fob are in the car and it will lock - this is OK. However, you cannot press the fob lock whilte sitting in the car with the door open and then close the door to have the fob locked in the car.
However, you can press the lock button on the fob while in the trunk with the trunk open and it will lock. When you then close the trunk, you will get a 2 second continuous beep that basically indicates that you are screwed because at that point you cannot retrieve your key and all of the doors are locked. This is obviously not OK. Can you tell me what is the value of the warning beep at that point?
It does not appear that you can readily lock the vehicle with the fob in the passenger compartment, but it is apparently very easy to lock the vehicle with the fob in the trunk.
just verified with my ES350. I can lock the car with the trunk open, and fob in the trunk. I then closed the trunk with the fob in the trunk. I hear a not-so-long beep after that. However, I can still open the trunk with the key fob in the trunk. I would say that it is a design flow in your IS.
06-03-06, 04:57 PM
#25
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Dealership had to break into the car?!
regardless of whose fault it is...... why can't a dealership get the car open without breaking stuff?!? If OnStar can open it up by satellite anywhere in the country, you think Lexus would have some idea on how to open the car up at a dealership. 
06-03-06, 05:11 PM
#26
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I only said it turned because it wasn't mentioned that this was an accident in the first posts. Maybe I missed it but the opening post was characterized as a flaw under normal conditions. Then later I read that a button might have been pressed accidently. Nevertheless, I'll reread your last post(s) and try out some of scenarios. Because I wish to learn anything and everything I can about how this car works....plus I can't afford to lock myself out. 
06-03-06, 05:18 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Bengalfang
regardless of whose fault it is...... why can't a dealership get the car open without breaking stuff?!? If OnStar can open it up by satellite anywhere in the country, you think Lexus would have some idea on how to open the car up at a dealership.
06-03-06, 05:30 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Bengalfang
regardless of whose fault it is...... why can't a dealership get the car open without breaking stuff?!? If OnStar can open it up by satellite anywhere in the country, you think Lexus would have some idea on how to open the car up at a dealership.
I was told by lexus, probably about 10 years ago. If you lose or lock the key inside, there's nothing they can do except break the glass, etc.Also, with all the whiners wrt to DLRs, I'd hate to think what those types would say about an OnStar like system. It would be 10x worse.
06-03-06, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TimboIS
That kinda of defeats the whole point of vehicle security! If Lexus can open it up, then so can thieves! I was told by lexus, probably about 10 years ago. If you lose or lock the key inside, there's nothing they can do except break the glass, etc.
Also, with all the whiners wrt to DLRs, I'd hate to think what those types would say about an OnStar like system. It would be 10x worse.
I was told by lexus, probably about 10 years ago. If you lose or lock the key inside, there's nothing they can do except break the glass, etc.Also, with all the whiners wrt to DLRs, I'd hate to think what those types would say about an OnStar like system. It would be 10x worse.
Actually advanced theives can. read.
It was posted in another thread too. So using your logic (in reverse) ..... If Theives can open it up, then so can Lexus!
06-03-06, 05:49 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
so help me out here, i'm trying to recreate the problem but some many variable so confusing so i'm might have it wrong.
here's what i did step by step in detail:
1.start with all windows down, all door unlocked, trunk closed.
2.place key fob #1 on the back passenger seat behind driver by tossing it thru the open window.
3.walk about to back of trunk with key fob #2 in my pocket, touch the trunk button and trunk opens.
4.take key fob #2 out of my pocket, with the key fob in my hand, reach way into the trunk extending my arm well within, press key fob #2 lock button, hear one short beep indicating that doors are locked, verified that four doors are locked.
5.drop the key fob #2 onto the trunk floor.
6.remove my arm LOL and close the trunk door.
7.hear one long beep which is a warning, trunk door is now completely closed and key fob #2 is inside the trunk and key fob #1 is still on the back seat. verify that all four doors are locked.
8.wait 10 second, i dunno why, just waited just in case anything happens (like maybe my doors will unlock themselves or something).
9.but they didn't, so now what do i do, i'm locked out?
10.touch the trunk button, and the trunk opens.
My emergency key is inside the house and I never used it. Did I get some of the steps wrong, did I recreate your incident correctly? What happened when you try #10?
here's what i did step by step in detail:
1.start with all windows down, all door unlocked, trunk closed.
2.place key fob #1 on the back passenger seat behind driver by tossing it thru the open window.
3.walk about to back of trunk with key fob #2 in my pocket, touch the trunk button and trunk opens.
4.take key fob #2 out of my pocket, with the key fob in my hand, reach way into the trunk extending my arm well within, press key fob #2 lock button, hear one short beep indicating that doors are locked, verified that four doors are locked.
5.drop the key fob #2 onto the trunk floor.
6.remove my arm LOL and close the trunk door.
7.hear one long beep which is a warning, trunk door is now completely closed and key fob #2 is inside the trunk and key fob #1 is still on the back seat. verify that all four doors are locked.
8.wait 10 second, i dunno why, just waited just in case anything happens (like maybe my doors will unlock themselves or something).
9.but they didn't, so now what do i do, i'm locked out?
10.touch the trunk button, and the trunk opens.
My emergency key is inside the house and I never used it. Did I get some of the steps wrong, did I recreate your incident correctly? What happened when you try #10?