akhbhaat

No personal offense, but the assessment you've given of these cars' driving characteristics is so inaccurate and contradictory that I'm inclined to think that you're lying about a great deal of it. Virtually nobody who has driven both cars (and hasn't somehow become badly confused during the process) would suggest that the IS350 feels more confident or secure from behind the wheel - let alone more like "a car." Relative to the 330i, it's heavy, the controls are very soft and fairly unresponsive, and it places a significant emphasis on techno-gadgetry. These things all make the IS350 feel like less of a car (in the traditional sense) and more of a monorail on wheels. You're dazzled by flashing lights and sharp displays, and by a surprisingly dramatic engine ignition process..all of it wrapped up in a feeling that suggested a sort of Japanese efficiency and cleanliness. I know I was impressed with these things (not to mention the power) when I drove the car. I was, however, much, much less impressed with it once I started turning the steering wheel.

A road-going monorail is fine, if that's what you want. But I know of absolutely nobody who genuinely wants a car where you "feel like you're in total control" or "on the road" and would also tell me they'd prefer the IS350 to the 330i, at least from behind the wheel.

CarFan

akhbaat said:The difficulty with this sort of stuff is that it is necessarily so subjective, and cannot easily be supported beyond that. How do you measure feel?

BMW claim that there cars are quote " The ultimate driving machine" Personally, if we're talking subjective driving feel and involvment, I'd take say an Mazda MX5 (or Miata in the US) over an 330i anyday of the week.

Coming back to the 330i v.s Lexus IS350, much would also depend upon tyres, the road, driving conditions etc.

Here in Australia, Wheels magazine recently did an in depth comparo between the IS 250 luxury sport, which is the top IS model we get here, and an BMW 325i - for a fair price comparison, model equivalent. I fully expected the BMW to win the comparo, as in most current reviews, everything else about a car that counts in the real world of ownership, seems to be subservient to how fast it goes in a straight line, and around corners, and of course the indefinable driving 'feel'. Yet, surprise, surpise, the Lexus won the comparison, and NOT just on the things one might feel it has advantages in, i.e. interior quality and design, overall VFM as regards equipment levels for the price, BUT, shock, horror, driving FEEL!

They stated that with the optional sports suspension that the BMW came with, the vehicle hopped and skipped over bumps where the Lexus felt much more securely tied down to the road, with all four wheels tracking securely, and that whilst heavier feeling in the steering, the BMW offered no more in terms of 'feel' over the Lexus, and from that POV they preferred the Lexus, as it was lighter in the steering, but had more of a sense of feel and control.

Personally I was truly surprised; I've driven all the new series Bimmers extensively, plus the new C Class Mercs, and only one Lexus IS250. My own thoughts at the time, were that the Benz had the best ride (as regards a real gliding quality) and the BMW would be the most nimble/chuckable/sporty, with the Lexus perhaps splitting them. But then again, whereas I've been able to push both the Mercs and especially the BMW's more or less to their performance extremes, my drive in the Lexus was comparitively quiet.

However, I did think the perceived quality in the Lexus was better than both of them (pretty tough for me to admit, as I've been a Benz and to a degree BMW fan for many, many years) and on balance would be the car I would most likely ultimately buy, all things being balanced and weighed up as regards what would best suit me as regards the inevitable balance of compromises inherent in any car.

But as I say, there is at least one review, where the Lexus got the nod over the BMW for driving feel; as I say, so much is subjective and dependant upon things like tyres, road conditions etc, that it is hard to make objective statements re such matters as driving feel, as in better/worse etc.

Best Regards

John..

westcoast

I have no reason to make up any of this stuff. It's just my opinion, and maybe the way I drive. I drive like I'm driving a racecar. I speed a lot, switch lanes really fast, and turn hard. Taking both cars on the freeway, I just had more fun driving the IS350. Maybe it was the fact that the BMWs engine wasn't broken in yet. I don't know, that's just what the BMW dealer told me.

It was easier to turn the wheel on the Lexus, where the BMWs steering felt stiffer. The response in braking on the BMW seemed a lot better than the Lexus, but acceleration wasn't even close to the IS350. It always took a second for the car to get going after sitting at a stoplight.

The BMW dealer told me to only go 75 percent on the throttle, while the Lexus dealer told me I could do whatever I want and go wherever I wanted to. The BMW to me just wasn't as exciting car to drive, which was disappointing because I actually wanted this car more at first. Maybe I needed to drive it harder, but the overall experience I had with the Lexus was just way better.

t0e

iTrader: (1)

Gata love it

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

drove the IS350 three times and the BMW 330 once at the Taste of Lexus driving event, so which was more fun to drive for me

jack278

I can only say this, in a real sports car, in order to feel the car, the steering should be very stiff, hell, it shouldn't even have power steering.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Lol, thats odd. Most people get the exact opposite opinion after driving a lexus. You may be mistaking your driving dynamics, with what actually contributes to performance. Body roll may feel more 'active' through a turn, but its not necessarily a good thing- you want stability. Also, the silent cabin of the lexus cars usually disconnects you from the sound of the engine and wind as you accelerate faster...both of which contribute to the "feel" of moving faster. For its given power output, I'd still say you feel isolated from actual speed (by design). You should probably try and drive a few less refined vehicles in the ballpark of 300hp (mustang GT comes to mind), and get an idea for how they compare in this aspect.

Have you driven a car without power steering? Thats about as real as it gets when considering actual feel. The IS is VERY power assisted, so while it may be easier to turn the steering wheel, you're also disconnected from the rest of the car, as opposed to the 'tighter' feel in the BMW. Keep in mind, these are vehicles that weigh in excess of 3000lbs, so through less assist, you will more likely feel it.

To each his own though, but glad you found the IS to be the more attractive purchase.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

too stiff is bad, when trying to do a quick left to right change in the 330 stiff wheel it took a lot of effort slowed my entrance into that corner, stiffness is good but 330 had too much for me

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

I agree. I'd only do no power steering on a lighter weight car, or at a track. On the street, I'd favor it (moderately) for most cases...especially parallel parking.

Bichon

That's wierd. I drove the two cars back-to-back and came away with the opposite impression. Even though the IS350 had MUCH better acceleration, the steering feel of the 330i more than made up for it, and I actually thought the 330i was more fun to drive, at least driving somewhat aggressively on twisty raods.

Yes, it was much easier to turn the wheel on the Lexus, but so what? The steering on the 330i gave more FEEDBACK, i.e., you could feel the steering effort decrease as you approached the limits of tire adhesion. It also seemed much more precise. I simply felt more confident in the 330i.

I bought the Lexus because it offered a combination of luxury, performance and style that the BMW simply didn't provide. But if there was a mod that would replicate the steering and brake feel of the 330i in my IS, I'd order it today.

KINGLEX

this thread is funny i went from a gs400 to a dinan 3, and bimmer is just so much more fun to drive. the speed at which i can take a turn with confidence is crazy. my friens also drove the is an 3 back to back at a lexus event and said that there was no comparison. the only advantage that lexus has is how u get treated at the dealership, and that is the only part i miss.

westcoast

I guess it's just the way I learned to drive. If I see that something is different, I might not like it cause that's not what I'm used to. You're absolutely right about the treatment you get at the dealership. The Lexus dealer was great. BMW dealers didn't even really want me to drive their car. They kept telling me not go too far with the test drive, and not to push the throttle too much. The Lexus dealer kept telling me to push the car to it's limits, lol.

I see what you guys are saying though with the steering. Maybe I should test drive the BMW again, but I was so impressed with the Lexus that I doubt that I would end up picking the 330i even after another test drive.

blue_rx330

I think I'll have to side with the masses. The 330i is the driver's car. The most common complaint about the IS350 is that its safety features cannot be disabled. The other ding is the lack of a manual shifter. Both dings could be corrected easily by Lexus in a future car if they wanted to.

For people that want to stay within the limits of daily commuting -- thats never a problem. But if you ever want to take it to an auto-cross or track-day and push your skills and learn the limits of the driver and the car, the IS350 won't let you squeeze the max performance out of the car because the computer intervenes.

liverichly

I just can't see myself taking an IS350, or 3 series to an auto-cross or track. The M series, AMG, or something a level above the IS350/G35/3 & 5 series class I would consider.

Does the 3 series corner better than the G35 coupe? When I test drove the 3 series I felt like my grandma was in the passenger seat the looks I was getting going over the speed limit, never had a chance to test it. When I test drove the Audi S4 the salesman let me feel the power and everything, can't see how the BMW salesman thought he was selling. My girlfriend has a G35 coupe so I am able to drive it how I like and the thing rules around corners. I don't see the IS350 being that good, but with the sport package I plan on getting it should get closer to the G35 handling.

al503

The electronic nannies (except for the ABS) can be disabled completely at startup by pressing the brake and e-brake pedals in a certain sequence.