Just test drove an IS350
06-06-06, 10:29 AM
#31
Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Edmunds sez...
Originally Posted by al503
The electronic nannies (except for the ABS) can be disabled completely at startup by pressing the brake and e-brake pedals in a certain sequence.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607
"That last item is really the issue here. While ABS and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) are accepted technologies on most sport sedans today, the inability to disable Traction Control (TRC), Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) and the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system is troublesome. Technically, you can disable traction control, but every time we did it allowed only a split second of wheel spin before re-engaging. How does this affect the car's ultimate handling capabilities? In our slalom test it averaged 64.1 mph. Not a bad number, but slower than the A4's 64.6 mph and the 330i's 66.4. See, sometimes the driver knows better."
06-06-06, 10:37 AM
#32
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by blue_rx330
I've only test-driven a IS350 and never had a chance push it to a point where it lost traction...but here's what Edmunds says:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607
"That last item is really the issue here. While ABS and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) are accepted technologies on most sport sedans today, the inability to disable Traction Control (TRC), Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) and the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system is troublesome. Technically, you can disable traction control, but every time we did it allowed only a split second of wheel spin before re-engaging. How does this affect the car's ultimate handling capabilities? In our slalom test it averaged 64.1 mph. Not a bad number, but slower than the A4's 64.6 mph and the 330i's 66.4. See, sometimes the driver knows better."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106607
"That last item is really the issue here. While ABS and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) are accepted technologies on most sport sedans today, the inability to disable Traction Control (TRC), Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) and the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system is troublesome. Technically, you can disable traction control, but every time we did it allowed only a split second of wheel spin before re-engaging. How does this affect the car's ultimate handling capabilities? In our slalom test it averaged 64.1 mph. Not a bad number, but slower than the A4's 64.6 mph and the 330i's 66.4. See, sometimes the driver knows better."
I drive exclusively with the VDIM on and I have yet to have it intervene even to the point of losing traction (slight 4 wheel drift on a highway on ramp). I think it intervenes to abrupt or sharper steering inputs like those on the slalom tests, autox's, etc.
Last edited by al503; 06-06-06 at 10:43 AM.
06-06-06, 10:40 AM
#33
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe/US
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CarFan
akhbaat said:
The difficulty with this sort of stuff is that it is necessarily so subjective, and cannot easily be supported beyond that. How do you measure feel?
BMW claim that there cars are quote " The ultimate driving machine" Personally, if we're talking subjective driving feel and involvment, I'd take say an Mazda MX5 (or Miata in the US) over an 330i anyday of the week.
Coming back to the 330i v.s Lexus IS350, much would also depend upon tyres, the road, driving conditions etc.
Here in Australia, Wheels magazine recently did an in depth comparo between the IS 250 luxury sport, which is the top IS model we get here, and an BMW 325i - for a fair price comparison, model equivalent. I fully expected the BMW to win the comparo, as in most current reviews, everything else about a car that counts in the real world of ownership, seems to be subservient to how fast it goes in a straight line, and around corners, and of course the indefinable driving 'feel'. Yet, surprise, surpise, the Lexus won the comparison, and NOT just on the things one might feel it has advantages in, i.e. interior quality and design, overall VFM as regards equipment levels for the price, BUT, shock, horror, driving FEEL!
They stated that with the optional sports suspension that the BMW came with, the vehicle hopped and skipped over bumps where the Lexus felt much more securely tied down to the road, with all four wheels tracking securely, and that whilst heavier feeling in the steering, the BMW offered no more in terms of 'feel' over the Lexus, and from that POV they preferred the Lexus, as it was lighter in the steering, but had more of a sense of feel and control.
Personally I was truly surprised; I've driven all the new series Bimmers extensively, plus the new C Class Mercs, and only one Lexus IS250. My own thoughts at the time, were that the Benz had the best ride (as regards a real gliding quality) and the BMW would be the most nimble/chuckable/sporty, with the Lexus perhaps splitting them. But then again, whereas I've been able to push both the Mercs and especially the BMW's more or less to their performance extremes, my drive in the Lexus was comparitively quiet.
However, I did think the perceived quality in the Lexus was better than both of them (pretty tough for me to admit, as I've been a Benz and to a degree BMW fan for many, many years) and on balance would be the car I would most likely ultimately buy, all things being balanced and weighed up as regards what would best suit me as regards the inevitable balance of compromises inherent in any car.
But as I say, there is at least one review, where the Lexus got the nod over the BMW for driving feel; as I say, so much is subjective and dependant upon things like tyres, road conditions etc, that it is hard to make objective statements re such matters as driving feel, as in better/worse etc.
Best Regards
John..
The difficulty with this sort of stuff is that it is necessarily so subjective, and cannot easily be supported beyond that. How do you measure feel?
BMW claim that there cars are quote " The ultimate driving machine" Personally, if we're talking subjective driving feel and involvment, I'd take say an Mazda MX5 (or Miata in the US) over an 330i anyday of the week.
Coming back to the 330i v.s Lexus IS350, much would also depend upon tyres, the road, driving conditions etc.
Here in Australia, Wheels magazine recently did an in depth comparo between the IS 250 luxury sport, which is the top IS model we get here, and an BMW 325i - for a fair price comparison, model equivalent. I fully expected the BMW to win the comparo, as in most current reviews, everything else about a car that counts in the real world of ownership, seems to be subservient to how fast it goes in a straight line, and around corners, and of course the indefinable driving 'feel'. Yet, surprise, surpise, the Lexus won the comparison, and NOT just on the things one might feel it has advantages in, i.e. interior quality and design, overall VFM as regards equipment levels for the price, BUT, shock, horror, driving FEEL!
They stated that with the optional sports suspension that the BMW came with, the vehicle hopped and skipped over bumps where the Lexus felt much more securely tied down to the road, with all four wheels tracking securely, and that whilst heavier feeling in the steering, the BMW offered no more in terms of 'feel' over the Lexus, and from that POV they preferred the Lexus, as it was lighter in the steering, but had more of a sense of feel and control.
Personally I was truly surprised; I've driven all the new series Bimmers extensively, plus the new C Class Mercs, and only one Lexus IS250. My own thoughts at the time, were that the Benz had the best ride (as regards a real gliding quality) and the BMW would be the most nimble/chuckable/sporty, with the Lexus perhaps splitting them. But then again, whereas I've been able to push both the Mercs and especially the BMW's more or less to their performance extremes, my drive in the Lexus was comparitively quiet.
However, I did think the perceived quality in the Lexus was better than both of them (pretty tough for me to admit, as I've been a Benz and to a degree BMW fan for many, many years) and on balance would be the car I would most likely ultimately buy, all things being balanced and weighed up as regards what would best suit me as regards the inevitable balance of compromises inherent in any car.
But as I say, there is at least one review, where the Lexus got the nod over the BMW for driving feel; as I say, so much is subjective and dependant upon things like tyres, road conditions etc, that it is hard to make objective statements re such matters as driving feel, as in better/worse etc.
Best Regards
John..
And the MX-5 is a brilliant car. I can think of several cars which surpass the 330i in terms of subjective (as I see it) driving feel, including many of the 330's own predecessors.
I remember test driving an MB C55 with my mother some while ago, and her complaining about the heft of the steering and the "poor ride." She didn't like the feel of it - personally, I think the C55 is a soft riding car, but that's why it truly is subjective.
06-06-06, 10:53 AM
#34
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe/US
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by westcoast
I have no reason to make up any of this stuff. It's just my opinion, and maybe the way I drive. I drive like I'm driving a racecar. I speed a lot, switch lanes really fast, and turn hard. Taking both cars on the freeway, I just had more fun driving the IS350. Maybe it was the fact that the BMWs engine wasn't broken in yet. I don't know, that's just what the BMW dealer told me.
It was easier to turn the wheel on the Lexus, where the BMWs steering felt stiffer. The response in braking on the BMW seemed a lot better than the Lexus, but acceleration wasn't even close to the IS350. It always took a second for the car to get going after sitting at a stoplight.
The BMW dealer told me to only go 75 percent on the throttle, while the Lexus dealer told me I could do whatever I want and go wherever I wanted to. The BMW to me just wasn't as exciting car to drive, which was disappointing because I actually wanted this car more at first. Maybe I needed to drive it harder, but the overall experience I had with the Lexus was just way better.
It was easier to turn the wheel on the Lexus, where the BMWs steering felt stiffer. The response in braking on the BMW seemed a lot better than the Lexus, but acceleration wasn't even close to the IS350. It always took a second for the car to get going after sitting at a stoplight.
The BMW dealer told me to only go 75 percent on the throttle, while the Lexus dealer told me I could do whatever I want and go wherever I wanted to. The BMW to me just wasn't as exciting car to drive, which was disappointing because I actually wanted this car more at first. Maybe I needed to drive it harder, but the overall experience I had with the Lexus was just way better.
Curiously enough, my IS350 test drive was well over an hour long, covering the entire gamut of driving conditions...from city driving in traffic, to backwoods rural roads, to the interstate. Meanwhile the BMW dealership insisted that I take a circular route through heavily trafficked roads which was over with in around 20 minutes. You'd think that a dealership whose cars are reknowned and advertised for their driving feel would be more inclined to encourage an extensive test drive...but I suspect they've become used to selling them on the badge alone. While this isn't particularly problematic for me (I've owned - let alone driven - countless BMWs over the years, ranging from the 318ti to the E60 M5 and everything in between), it's a pity for somebody who has little experience with BMW cars and will not be given the opportunity to experience them in such a way that they can be appreciated.
I should also note that stiff steering is an important feature of sporting cars. Personally, I think the 330i's steering is a bit numb and limp, but it really depends on what you're used to.
In any case, if Lexus ever manages to build a car that has a truly sporting character, I'd strongly consider it over the competing BMW product, despite my general distaste for Toyota styling. I'm just tired of the BMW community, image, and stereotype.
Last edited by akhbhaat; 06-06-06 at 12:16 PM.
06-06-06, 10:55 AM
#35
To Bichon
"I actually thought the 330i was more fun to drive, at least driving somewhat aggressively on twisty raods. I simply felt more confident in the 330i."
Sorry but I have to ask you this. If you're so confident and having lots of fun in 330i, why did you choose the cosmetic over safety and fun?
Sorry but I have to ask you this. If you're so confident and having lots of fun in 330i, why did you choose the cosmetic over safety and fun?
06-06-06, 11:22 AM
#36
Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fortune cookie...
Originally Posted by al503
The electronic nannies (except for the ABS) can be disabled completely at startup by pressing the brake and e-brake pedals in a certain sequence.
06-06-06, 11:30 AM
#37
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by blue_rx330
Did not know that...I retract my statement about the annoying safety features based on your info!
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=187987
06-06-06, 01:47 PM
#38
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by t.is350.h
"I actually thought the 330i was more fun to drive, at least driving somewhat aggressively on twisty raods. I simply felt more confident in the 330i."
Sorry but I have to ask you this. If you're so confident and having lots of fun in 330i, why did you choose the cosmetic over safety and fun?
Sorry but I have to ask you this. If you're so confident and having lots of fun in 330i, why did you choose the cosmetic over safety and fun?
A few more reasons:
1. Toyota reliability and maintenance costs. Coming from a six year old Audi S4, I was acutely aware of what is costs to keep a German car in top shape once the warranty expires.
2. Electronics. Touch screen navigation beats iDrive.
3. Luxury. The glove soft seats in the IS are SO much nicer than the leatherette, or even the optional (hard) leather seats on the Bimmer. The steering wheel on the IS is much nicer too.
Bottom line: the reality of my commute is that I spend much more time stuck behind mini-vans and SUVs in traffic than I do on twisty open roads. For the kind of I driving that I do (not to be confused with the kind of driving I LIKE to do
), the Lexus is a better choice.
06-06-06, 04:27 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Bichon
Cosmetics over safety and fun, c'mon, I'm not that shallow a person.
A few more reasons:
1. Toyota reliability and maintenance costs. Coming from a six year old Audi S4, I was acutely aware of what is costs to keep a German car in top shape once the warranty expires.
2. Electronics. Touch screen navigation beats iDrive.
3. Luxury. The glove soft seats in the IS are SO much nicer than the leatherette, or even the optional (hard) leather seats on the Bimmer. The steering wheel on the IS is much nicer too.
Bottom line: the reality of my commute is that I spend much more time stuck behind mini-vans and SUVs in traffic than I do on twisty open roads. For the kind of I driving that I do (not to be confused with the kind of driving I LIKE to do ), the Lexus is a better choice.
A few more reasons:
1. Toyota reliability and maintenance costs. Coming from a six year old Audi S4, I was acutely aware of what is costs to keep a German car in top shape once the warranty expires.
2. Electronics. Touch screen navigation beats iDrive.
3. Luxury. The glove soft seats in the IS are SO much nicer than the leatherette, or even the optional (hard) leather seats on the Bimmer. The steering wheel on the IS is much nicer too.
Bottom line: the reality of my commute is that I spend much more time stuck behind mini-vans and SUVs in traffic than I do on twisty open roads. For the kind of I driving that I do (not to be confused with the kind of driving I LIKE to do
), the Lexus is a better choice.. Reading your post earlier, it sound like you have no interest in the 2is. However, at the end you still got one. That make me think that you were choosing cosmetic over safety and fun.
06-06-06, 08:50 PM
#40
Driver
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Queens. NY
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the point of totota reliability has come up. last year they had a huge recall in their lexus division, which some industry insiders say could have a huge effect on the brand. i now have 86k on my dinan 3 and have had no major problems. more technology will =more things going wrong, just ask mercedes. people r talking about the is having more power. bmw changes engines more often than lexus. u will see a twin turbo 335i reaching 300hp this fall and bmw is known for getting more hp to the rubber than lexus. also don't forget about the m3. so many options
i do love lexus as a brand, but with every car except the es they are chasing another brand.
i do love lexus as a brand, but with every car except the es they are chasing another brand.
06-06-06, 10:08 PM
#41
Lead Lap
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KINGLEX
the point of totota reliability has come up. last year they had a huge recall in their lexus division, which some industry insiders say could have a huge effect on the brand. i now have 86k on my dinan 3 and have had no major problems. more technology will =more things going wrong, just ask mercedes. people r talking about the is having more power. bmw changes engines more often than lexus. u will see a twin turbo 335i reaching 300hp this fall and bmw is known for getting more hp to the rubber than lexus. also don't forget about the m3. so many options
i do love lexus as a brand, but with every car except the es they are chasing another brand.
i do love lexus as a brand, but with every car except the es they are chasing another brand.
Hehe Wow another BMW fan...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Xs2kGuy714
IS - 2nd Gen (2006-2013)
57
12-19-05 07:46 AM
