sab504

iTrader: (1)

Like someone said, modding is a hobby. Personally I love it because it makes my car a little different from all the other 2IS.

Bichon

As those who have crossed swords with Audi can attest, the protections offered by the federal Magnuson-Moss warranty act are not nearly as strong as the manufacturers of aftermarket performance parts would like you to believe.

Essentially, the relavant part of the act prevents "tie-in sales", e.g., they can't require you to use genuine Lexus oil filters as a condition of maintaining your warranty unless they provide them for free.

That's NOT the same thing as saying you can modify the car with parts intended to make it perform in excess of original design specs. And while the aftermarket sellers will often say (as Shinobi-X did) that the car company has to "prove" that your mod caused the malfunction, in reality many people have had their warranty coverage denied simply due to the presence of aftermarket performance parts that could have stressed the failed system.

kensteele

i wouldn't think they had to prove anything unless and until they are in mediation.

ecr527

People mod their cars because they always want to have something that's a little different from everyone else's. I'm sure some sort of mod will make it onto your car one way or another otherwise you wouldn't be on these forums.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it provides a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty.

That being quoted, the law is the law, no matter how any entity will try and work around it. I'm sorry, but I've seen the bogus "voiding of warranty" claims dismissed entirely too often for it to be declared a weak case by any means, and no aftermarket part manufacturer had to attempt to verify anything. This is an issue which can be dealt with at the dealer level most times, as they are usually not willing to get too in depth with their claims...if not, then one should not be modifying their car, plain and simple.

Also speaking from personal experience, the reality of the situation largely depends on your ability to present the case; I just assisted a friend in recieving an engine replacement for an SE-R w/ cat-back exhaust, due to the dealers claim and terrible test methods of attempting to use the dipstick to measure short term oil loss, when the car was burning oil excessively over a longer term. Of course a dealer is going to try and tell you that by modding the car in any way, you will exceed the design spec...its a generic assertion made, because they often do not want to be responsible for replacing the part or component and cost. In the scenario above, you had to be burning more than a quart of oil in a short period of time (three days) for it to "be a problem", which is simply not true, pointed out after the fact that the car required a legit test, to the tune of testing the valve seals/guides, or compression on the rings etc. Another dealer tried to claim that wheel/tire upgrades and suspension modification on an RSX-S, were linked to the manaul tranny's synchros being faulty, partly do to "racing"...the tranny was indeed replaced under warranty, as conjecture does not outwiegh valid evidence. Therefore, claiming to "exceed design spec", can be a very weak claim, depedent on what it is exactly you have modified, and your knowledge of how a given mod has bearing on other parts of the car. I also did state specifically, "However, it can be a tedious battle, and some mods are easier to argue than others when it comes to failure. I can attest to other cases involving Mazda, Honda and Nissan vehicles, all popular among the modding community, where modifications done were said to void warranty, but indeed could not. Other times, they were proven to void the warranty, as what may have happened in your case. In either scenerio, if you're not properly able to defend what you did to your car, then don't perform the modification, otherwise be prepared for the dealer to take the hard line, and not honor warranty claims.

james6290

its a lifestyle, and a hobby, plain as that for me....

Bichon

Here is Magnuson-Moss:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht..._15_10_50.html

Please show me where it says that.

Bichon

Actually, I was lucky enough to still have the original turbos in my S4 working fine when I sold the car, despite some 60 ,000+ miles driving with a chip that increased the boost pressure and upped engine output by 60 HP.

During that time period, I had no problem obtaining warranty service to replace damaged speakers, a leaky gasket around the fuel gauge sender, and a few other parts unrelated to the chip. Had those claims been denied, I'd have certainly pursued legal remedies. But had my turbos blown, I would have sucked up the cost of the repair.

I know of others who HAVE had such problems. From what I've read, if you have a mod-friendly dealer willing to go-to-bat for you with the manufacturer's regional rep, you'll do much better than taking the case to court. They have lawyers and engineers on staff, you don't.

cdeeznuts

iTrader: (2)

This is my IS.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My IS is my best friend.
It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My IS, without me, is useless.
Without my IS, I am useless.

My IS is human, even as I, because it is my life.
Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weaknesses,
its strengths,
its parts,
its accessories,
I will ever guard it against
the ravages of weather and damage.
I will keep my IS clean and ready,
even as I am clean and ready.
We will become part of each other.
We will.

OneOfOne

its not the modding but the lack of taste in some cases. modding is fine and as there are no limits to what can be done, also there is no accounting for what is done. its entirely up to the individual. you will never convince a tacky person that their tacky mods arent tacky. but as long as they are happy and you dont have to deal with it all is fine. the true modders do something that cant be easily repeated and which is novel, innovative, and not easily thought of. most of the rest is just hacking and silly.

goober007

the alternator on my 2000 accord coupe v6 blew after 20000 clicks... the dealership blamed the problem on the amp and subwoofer that i installed on the car... but they still replaced the alternator free of charge. lucky me i gues...

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Above was the translation, below is the technical portion which you've asked for, and many more have utilized.

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).

Mod at your own discretion.

kensteele

That's not what that means. You should go back to "law" school lol.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Tell it to those who have had their warranties honored, for modifications which did not cause the damage to a given part, as previously claimed by a dealer. Otherwise, could you provide explanation for what the above "does mean", and why both aftermarket and dealers alike have honored it for what was stated/quoted previously in the debate.

LexFather

Think of it this way.
Stock 911 is fantastic, almost perfect. But you can never be happy. Thus
C4S
AWD
GT2
GT3
Turbo
GT3 RS

etc etc(though those mods are 99% functional)

Mods in other words, accent your style and personality. If you want some more class, some nice 19" wheels and a drop. You have sublte body kits or the "hey look at me" ones. Bling, 20" chrome. You have the moron look, lambo doors.
Since cars were first built, man has modded them, trying to make them better or "fit" the owner.

HAPPY MODDING!!!