What was Lexus thinking??? (lack of manual tranny on is350)
#16
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Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
Lexus is leaning more towards the "comfort and safety" direction rather than the "sporty and agile" direction, which is not a negative thing. It's a matter of philosophy.
For Lexus, the comfort of an automatic transmission is "luxury," because it is easier for 99% of drivers on the road. Does that mean it's wrong? Absolutely not. It's their philosophy.
Upon the release of more performance oriented cars (such as the LF-A or GT), Lexus will most likely provide manual transmissions. Otherwise, Lexus knows that their cars are driven everyday, not on a track. They will give automatic transmissions for their customers because they know that for 99% of drivers out there, it is much easier to use.
For Lexus, the comfort of an automatic transmission is "luxury," because it is easier for 99% of drivers on the road. Does that mean it's wrong? Absolutely not. It's their philosophy.
Upon the release of more performance oriented cars (such as the LF-A or GT), Lexus will most likely provide manual transmissions. Otherwise, Lexus knows that their cars are driven everyday, not on a track. They will give automatic transmissions for their customers because they know that for 99% of drivers out there, it is much easier to use.
The 350 doesn't have a manual because of the COST.
The engineering effort involved in developing and testing a tight and reliable 6 speed - that can effectively mate with the power of the engine - is either a)cost prohibitive based on the projected sales; or b) in progress and will be able to handle this power for several vehicle platforms.
Probably less than 10% of all 350's would sell as manuals.
I wish mine had one.
#17
Super Moderator
In many places outside N.America, they have a restrictive license just for driving automatic transmission cars. Only if you pass the driving test in a manual car can you qualify for a blanket driver's license for cars.
#18
Cycle Savant
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Originally Posted by ff_
How is an automatic transmission more "safe"?
Unfortunately, we are in an automotive enthusiasts' forum, and we are not like most people. Take a step back and look at what Lexus sees: they see people who value luxury over performance. People that want to value performance over luxury will end up getting a Bimmer or an exotic, or mod the hell out of a Civic. That is not Lexus' target market population.
I reiterate: "Lexus is leaning more towards the "comfort and safety" direction rather than the "sporty and agile" direction, which is not a negative thing.
#19
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I have a manual is250. The only reason I chose it over the automatic is because the 250 is absurdly slow with the automatic. I guess this vehicle is deceptively heavy as others have commented. The manual makes the 2.5 liter engine at least acceptably fast, in fact on open roads it's a pleasure, but in L.A. bumper to bumper traffic it blows goats. In my opinion, an auto requires more torque like that found in the 3.5 liter to provide good acceleration.
#20
Cycle Savant
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Originally Posted by Wid IS350
The 350 doesn't have a manual because of the COST.
The engineering effort involved in developing and testing a tight and reliable 6 speed - that can effectively mate with the power of the engine - is either a)cost prohibitive based on the projected sales; or b) in progress and will be able to handle this power for several vehicle platforms.
The engineering effort involved in developing and testing a tight and reliable 6 speed - that can effectively mate with the power of the engine - is either a)cost prohibitive based on the projected sales; or b) in progress and will be able to handle this power for several vehicle platforms.
Is it a bad thing for Lexus to save money by not offering a manual for the 350? If the 350 does not sell, then it's a bad thing. If the 350 sells well (which it is), then Lexus cannot find fault in their decision of not providing a manual tranny.
Is it a bad thing for Lexus to not develop and test a reliable manual tranny for all their cars? Perhaps. Lexus will not have the performance "badge" that they so desperately need. If Lexus develops the LF-A with no manual tranny, then most enthusiasts and magazines will crucify them for it. HOWEVER, IF IT SELLS, then Lexus has nothing to worry about, no matter how many enthusiasts and magazines cry about it...
#22
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Originally Posted by LexArazzo
The absense of a manual transmission option is the main reason I still have my G35 coupe.
I like the IS350 sedan a lot , but it does not give me enough reasons to switch mainly because of that.
I like the IS350 sedan a lot , but it does not give me enough reasons to switch mainly because of that.
I am with your on this. I love this car but I really want a manual tranny. That's why it might give me enough reason to switch to new G35c or 335i.
#23
I ride a motorcycle. It has a sequential manual gearbox plus a clutch. After a while, I stopped using the clutch except during stops. It only interferes and makes shifts slower.
I have a Lexus GS430. It has an automatic transmission that I can put into desired gear (although it will still downshift it it chooses). I don't have to use a clutch during stops.
The only difference in driving feel between the two is that the shifts in the GS are a bit laggy, but nothing I can't get used to -- in fact, I am totally used to it now -- just have to think a little farther ahead.
So in essence, the Lex auto gives me exactly what I want -- a sequential gearbox without a clutch. I don't realy care how it works underneath -- dual clutch or torque converter or single cluch -- that's just an implementation detail.
Seeing the technology trend and sales number, true manuals will soon disappear completely, along with manual chokes and crank starts. We will move on.
I have a Lexus GS430. It has an automatic transmission that I can put into desired gear (although it will still downshift it it chooses). I don't have to use a clutch during stops.
The only difference in driving feel between the two is that the shifts in the GS are a bit laggy, but nothing I can't get used to -- in fact, I am totally used to it now -- just have to think a little farther ahead.
So in essence, the Lex auto gives me exactly what I want -- a sequential gearbox without a clutch. I don't realy care how it works underneath -- dual clutch or torque converter or single cluch -- that's just an implementation detail.
Seeing the technology trend and sales number, true manuals will soon disappear completely, along with manual chokes and crank starts. We will move on.
#25
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Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
IS500 + DSG transmission please
I'd still take stick over DSG, even DSG might be quicker. you just cant beat the feel of shifting with your own motor control rather than some computer controlled.
#27
BMW is by far the largest seller of manual transmissions in the US in the luxury market. Their total manual transmissions are less than 15% of their sales here. This forum is not typical of most Lexus customers - younger and more sport oriented. There is just not enough market in the US to justify the expense of developing a manual transmission. I believe that the future for sport/luxury transmissions it something like DSG. Better acceleration and better fuel mileage without the maintenance problems with the clutch.
Steve
Steve
#28
Originally Posted by Memphisacc
And who is to say developing a manual tranny is more costly then an auto ? Do you have any proof of that or is it just a self justified statement you made thinking no one was going to try and make your prove it....
Luxury automatics and or sport car automatics aren't the same pieces of garabage you find in an accord or altima....its extremly well engineered. Porsche and BMW both have done amazing things with an auto tranny....imo.
Luxury automatics and or sport car automatics aren't the same pieces of garabage you find in an accord or altima....its extremly well engineered. Porsche and BMW both have done amazing things with an auto tranny....imo.
When is the last time you heard of an Accord/Altima V6 automatic transmission failing? Or not being smooth? The auto transmission on our ES330 is one of the worst I've driven in recent history (honestly!). Definitely not a glowing badge of honor for the Lexus nameplate.
On the contrary to your statements, having hung out on BMW messages boards for the better part of the past 4 years, I hear of plenty of problems with the BMW auto transmissions. And have driven them on several occasions as well. There is nothing any more special about their auto transmission, or Lexus', or MB's, or [insert any other luxury make here].
#30
So when we talk about a "bad" automatic, what exactly do we mean?
I've been driving manuals all my life until recently.
My first automatic was a SAAB 9-3 2.0 turbo. It made me appreciate what automatics have to offer. It always seems to be in the gear I would choose if I was driving myself, except at steady speeds, when it's always in top gear. The only thing I would change about that tranny is easier gear selection -- I can limit its top gear, but it's cumbersome.
My second automatic is in the Lex GS430, and this is a totally different beast. If I didn't shift it myself, it would ALWAYS be in the top gear. It just wants to keep the revs as low as possible, which kills all the fun. But it does have a nice gated shifter, and I've learned to keep the engine exactly where I want it to be.
Finally, my dad has a VW Passat 4motion auto, and I've driven this car quite a bit. It's a nice tranny by itself that seems to know where it needs to be and the kickdown feature (push the gas pedal beyond the first stop) is very cool. The engine is gutless though, so it isn't very much fun.
When I first bought the Lex (SAAB is a wife's car), I really really hated the auto and wanted to go back to stick, but I made myself get used to it and learn to control it. Now I love it. Mind you, I love a manual too, just not in traffic. In the end, the tranny is just a tool. The auto offers a little more convenience at the cost of a little bit of precision. Kind of like a softer suspension that is bearable in the city but isn't as sharp in the twisties.
I've been driving manuals all my life until recently.
My first automatic was a SAAB 9-3 2.0 turbo. It made me appreciate what automatics have to offer. It always seems to be in the gear I would choose if I was driving myself, except at steady speeds, when it's always in top gear. The only thing I would change about that tranny is easier gear selection -- I can limit its top gear, but it's cumbersome.
My second automatic is in the Lex GS430, and this is a totally different beast. If I didn't shift it myself, it would ALWAYS be in the top gear. It just wants to keep the revs as low as possible, which kills all the fun. But it does have a nice gated shifter, and I've learned to keep the engine exactly where I want it to be.
Finally, my dad has a VW Passat 4motion auto, and I've driven this car quite a bit. It's a nice tranny by itself that seems to know where it needs to be and the kickdown feature (push the gas pedal beyond the first stop) is very cool. The engine is gutless though, so it isn't very much fun.
When I first bought the Lex (SAAB is a wife's car), I really really hated the auto and wanted to go back to stick, but I made myself get used to it and learn to control it. Now I love it. Mind you, I love a manual too, just not in traffic. In the end, the tranny is just a tool. The auto offers a little more convenience at the cost of a little bit of precision. Kind of like a softer suspension that is bearable in the city but isn't as sharp in the twisties.