Bichon

I've brought up on a few occasions that having a movie playing in view of the driver is not only potentionally distracting, but might also expose the person to prosecution and addional liability in the event of a crash. I'd put this particular nav hack in a different catagory than the others, since it is a clear violation of US federal motor vehicle code.

That said, I think Lexus went WAAAAAAY overboard on some of the other functions they locked out while driving. Two of the most egregious examples are blanking out caller id phone number (forcing people to fumble with their cellphones to see who is calling-a far more dangerous act), and blanking out song details.

Passerby

Calling me out specifically would be getting personal wouldnt it?

No, I happened to read your post and I thought it ridiculous enough for me to actually register to post. I just couldnt resist it. Oh, and it wasnt that much trouble, I just never felt the need to post anything on this board, until today. It would be extremely sad IF someone had to create an Alias to hide behind but that is just the limitations of a web forum isnt it? I'd gladly meet with you to discuss this further over coffee should you be in my city. I also think the seatbelt laws we have in california is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, what do you think?

p.s.- I still stand by my statement.

Magellan

Yes, that particular post about watching DVD’s (for the kids in the back) was in a nav-hack thread. I was waiting for someone to challenge that as a bad idea, but nobody did.

And there’s no question that some of the systems are designed with lawsuits in mind. And the reality is it will be us, who may have to pay more for our next car due to increased liability premiums the manufacture will have to pay, that they will pass on to us in the MSRP.

rys

I'm sorry, what's the problem here?

You're obviously against hacking the nav, that's great. For those users that have hacked the Nav, they should understand the risks. If a person with hacked Nav/ML crashes their car because they are watching a DVD, then that is their fault, not the fault of Lexus. Lexus did not design the car to allow this, it was enabled by modification.

There is a clear risk that people are taking, and it is understood. That's why no one is complaining.

-Brian

SolaraToIS

I think it is safe to say that this thread IS about opinions.
Can I slide on that?

al503

I don't have an opinion one way or the other but the "problem" (for the sake of argument) is that lexus may be held liable in the case of an accident caused by a distraction from the nav hack. Manufacturers are held to a relatively high standard in making their products 'safe.' They are also required to take into consideration that many will:
1. modify their products (as evidenced here)
2. abuse their products
3. use their products for purposes not intended by the manufacturer.

The question of liability for such an accident will come down to whether the manufacturer knew or should have known that the consumer could modify, etc., their products and what steps if any they took to deter this.

So, one "problem" is that all of the manufacturers have to spend more money on r&d on many aspects of the car to deter abuse/misuse of their products and we all get to pay for that whether we do the nav hack or not.

The second "problem" that I see is that regardless of whether the person making the mod is held accountable or not, that might not be much solace for the victims who get injured or lose a family member, etc.

kensteele

well i would like to see that federal motor vehicle code. i once posted about the state law. not all states prohibit.

Magellan

The problem here is your suggestion that the risk is solely the hacker’s. That is not really true. Not only can the hacker devastate his/her own family by being killed in an auto accident; not only can he wipe out innocents on the road, i.e., those unfortunate people at the other end of that head-on collision mentioned in my original post; and considering the insurance costs and increased rates that we all, in the final analysis, will share; you cannot say the risk is only the hacker’s.

For that matter, we both live in California. I wouldn’t take it kindly if it was my family you wiped out one day on the 210 freeway while taking your eyes off the road for that horrific instant.

gsrthomas

iTrader: (1)

Oh god.. give me a break accidents happen! We dont live in a perfect world. If you are to worried about someone that has done the navi hack killing you and your family then sell your car and stay home where its "safe".

Bichon

Not that safe. None less than Billy Joel ran off the road and crashed into someone's house. Not sure if he was playing with a hacked nav at the time.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

But it isn't about the nav hack. It could be about cell phones, or rowdy children or pets, or someone eating a burrito, or someone who took prescription medication, or someone forgot to bring their prescription sunglasses.

The problem is that anyone can have an accident depending on how they drive. If the driver is watching a DVD after the nav hack, it is as dangerous as someone on a cell phone, or someone who forgot their prescription glasses.

It isn't about someone deliberately trying to harm you or your family in the car. It's about making wrong decisions at the wrong time; it's about bad luck. It isn't about the other car trying to make your life miserable; it's about people in general making wrong decisions.

To answer the first question: YES, THE NAV HACK COMPROMISES SAFETY. However, I would be more inclined to fight other problems out on the road, such as poor drivers, cell phone abusers, speed demons, incompetence, and people that actually drive to harm people such as ones that lead police into freeway chases and within residential neighborhoods.

optical_X

Yes, it does compromise safety, but then again I paid $45K for my car and will do with it what I please. I've already modified the wiring in order to entertain my friends while they're in the car.

You can't really drive if you're watching a movie right? So, I don't.

It's for entertainment value and why not utilize what's available to you, right?

Magellan

Hey, every time I get into my car I worry that some nut out there is going to wipe me out. Now I’m willing to take that risk, but you can’t blame me for trying to minimize it. Certainly bringing up a particular safety hazard on this forum, albeit too small to measure, is at least worth discussing for the first time on CL. And that’s why I bothered to start this thread.

If it’s an irritant to those of you who have, or plan to, nav-hack, well, you’re free to do anything you want, including ignoring this thread.

choopa

I can't speak for watching movies while in motion. However I used to have a Mazda RX-8 manual with NAV and I never had to pull over and stop to put in any destination or to use any other feature. I never had to do any "hack", it came like that from the factory.

So I don't see the difference in "hacking" the Lexus NAV to use all the features while in motion. What make Lexus so special that it isn't right to use it in motion if other car manufactures alow it without modification.

Magellan

Well, I know you can’t do it in my G35, so I assume that’s true for all Nissan products, as well as Toyota, of course.

Now your point would be well taken if we knew (1) how many navigation-caused accidents there are in Mazda products compared to other manufacturers, and (2) what is the lawsuit payout experience at Mazda compared to other auto makers? An analysis of that data would certainly shed some light on this discussion.