PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

The thing is, you CAN get a ticket (in most states)...

In California, the law states that you cannot have a video monitor in front of the driver's shoulders when in motion.

rys

Not for the NAV hack specifically, but when enabling DVD playback, in California atleast, if a CHP officer sees that the movie is playing back in view of the driver, they will ticket you.

-Brian

rys

Dang, beat me to it.

-Brian

kensteele

I doubt it. That's not what the law reads. You can't get a ticket for simply having a video monitor in the line of sight IF that monitor is an OEM GPS/DVD monitor which is what we are talking about here. Of course you can get a ticket if you are caught watching a video but not if you are not caught.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/p...-8957372c.html

The Nav hack itself is neither illegal nor unsafe. What you do with it is another story but there's nothing wrong with the nav hacks. A whole bunch of cars on the road today have their nav hacked straight from the factory, not a problem.

The "video" monitor in the 2IS is exempted from this since it is a GPS monitor and OEM installed. You still can't play videos on it while driving but you can't get a ticket for it just because it's there and certainly not because it is "hacked" as others have suggested.

SolaraToIS

Sounds like one of my coworkers after he got his DUI
I just hope I'm never in the path of an offender

kensteele

Oh so now we are equating to glancing at a movie now and again to DWI?

I think it's sad that you are concerned about being in the path of a 2IS driver with a hacked nav. Those are probably some of the safest drivers on the road and you're afraid of them because of some stupid thread on CL. You need to be afraid of people without licenses, drunk and impaired drivers, unsafe truck drivers, people distracted by talking and eating and reading and makeup, certain older and younger inexperienced driver; those are 95% of your worries not a hacked 2IS nav.

So I said it wrong above I made it seem like it was a bad thing. I should have said "you cannot get a ticket for watching a video on a nav unless the officer witnesses you committing the offense. He cannot ticket you because you have this capability." Unlike a DWI where you can(so your analogy is wrong).

knuckles

Magellan, I don't suppose you own a gun, do you?

Magellan

Some of you guys still don’t get the point.

Yes I own a gun.
Yes I speed from time to time.
I’ve even threw some trash out my window once (back in 1962, if I remember).

The point I was making here is that for all the nav-hack threads on this forum nobody brought up the question of whether it’s safe to do so or not. Well, I raised the question. Regardless of my opinion that it does compromise safety, you can still do as you damn well please of course. But at least you’ve got something else to think about.

Perhaps as an older person (69) around here I come off as preachy when you don’t want to hear it. Well, I’m sorry for that. I’ve been lucky to live through my many mistakes but have paid a price for most of them. If you want to ignore my views, that’s your loss.

SolaraToIS

Geez Ken, lighten up and don't twist my words.
I was only refering to an offender as a driver that watches video while driving, not one that
has hacked their nav. Heck, I will probably hack my nav when I get my IS. The added functionality
will not be for me as a driver though.
And yes, my analogy to DUI was poor.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

You've definately raised a good question and a very hot topic.

It's not about being old or preachy, nor is it about us ignoring the issue.

It's about having something that can be used incorrectly. Like alcohol or guns or a car with 306 horsepower, anything can be used incorrectly. The Nav-hack can be used incorrectly, and it can cause problems. But so can a car with 306 horsepower in general.

Using the Nav-hack incorrectly is dangerous. Compare it to anything else in mind: guns, alcohol, cell phones, or what not: It has the POTENTIAL to be dangerous, but it onto itself is not dangerous.

knuckles

The reason why I asked is that (and as a gun owner you should know) guns don't kill people, people kill people. Therefore, hacked navigation systems don't kill people, peoples individual behavior behind the wheel and the decisions they make kill people. Performing the hack compromises safety no more than buying a car already equipped with a fully functional navigation/phonebook system (I'll leave the DVD argument out since that appears to be illegal in most states). It would be the same if I disabled the mechanical safety on my gun. Would that be any less safe then buying a gun without a mechanical safety in the first place?

I could see your point a little more clearly if all vehicles required the hack to defeat safety considerations, but it really comes down to a matter of personal opinion as to whether or not the nav hack compromises safety. You believe it does and it doesn't appear that any amount of other peoples opinions is going to change your mind. So for you, the nav hack is probably out of the question.

I would like to think that those that perform the hack will do so with the understanding that they have added a measure of accountability which demands a conscious awareness of the consequences of their behaviors and actions. In short, if you are easily distracted or can't keep from messing with your system when inappropriate, leave the system alone. However, if you feel you can leave the navigation/phone dialing/etc to a passenger or when your at a light or parked, by all means carry on...

EDIT: Dang, Phil beat me to the point... Maybe if I was less long winded next time.......

Jay M

Any modern car has so many toys that they are already dangerous!

I think driver education needs to take a modern car into account and train young drivers how to deal with all the stuff that is a part of driving in this age.

Pilots have a lot more distractions in the cockpit, but they are trained to use it safely.

At least for me the most dangerous distraction are my passangers. I can drive safely with my wife, but when less familiar people are in the car I have a harder time watching the road.

The NAV hack is really no different that using an ipod and a Nuvi. Watching a DVD while you are driving.... that's just crazy! Having a DVD running, and trying not to look... that takes major self control

~Jay

Magellan

To Jay M and knuckles,

In essence I agree with what you’re both saying. The gun analogy is a good one. I only wish I had more confidence that all who have hacked their system will use it responsibly. I sometimes feel that a few have done it just to “outsmart” the manufacturer or to be cool, sort of like another mod. Now no one is going to admit to that, but it’s just a sentiment I have.

Certainly the driver who says he never glances at the DVD’s his kids are watching from the back is just not credible. I’ve had kids, who were once 2 and 4, and I can hear it now, “Daddy, Daddy, look at this! Please, please, look now!”

And your reference to pilots is interesting. I am a pilot, instrument rated with a commercial license. When I was going through flight training and my instructor was shutting down systems and putting other obstacles in my way, he always said, “First, fly the airplane” meaning my primary duty was to keep my eyes outside and the plane in the air first. There seems to be a valid analogy here.

al503

Agree. If the kids are in the back laughing or giving up some oohs and aahs, it's just human nature to look at what they're looking at.

kensteele

The 2IS is not the first vehicle with a DVD player. I don't think you have anything to worry about in that regard. Not sure how you make the connection between people's motivation to hack and their ability to be safe but just like I said several pages ago, there are no facts to support any of this. It's just pure opinion and speculation. But there are facts to support the notion that DVD players are not found to be causing fatal accidents. And there are facts to support the idea that other distractions should be your main worry. You might know that people are not watching videos in their car like they watch them at home. Unlike people who read books in their car as though they were reading in bed which they do. Let's ban books in the front seat. Glancing at the video when the kids point to something, nothing wrong with that....nothing at all. No different than glancing at the billboard they insist you look at before you pass. Absolutely nothing inherintly unsafe about it.

I had to fight this battle twice before. First time, people told me that a radar detector meant I was a reckless speeder and it should be banned because possession of a radar detector made me a safety risk. How foolish is that? Those people lost and have since changed their minds after the facts proved them wrong. No state except Va believes this and the only reason they believe it is because of money/revenue. Second time, people told me that having a navigation system in my dash was a distraction and would lead to many accidents and wasn't worth it and shouldn't be allowed because I would watch end up watching the screen and not the road. When the facts proved them wrong, they again moved on to the things that facts showed them what was wrong and left me alone. No state bans nav video monitors in the front seat. Same will prove out for this one. I'll just wait it out and come back to this thread in two years and show that once again....your title question is wrong/no: the nav hack does NOT compromise safety.