Doesn’t the nav-hack compromise safety?
07-11-06, 09:15 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Doesn’t the nav-hack compromise safety?
OK, I’m an old fuddy-duddy, a boy scout, a behind-the-times nerd, but I don’t understand this attraction to doing the Nav-hack.
I mean besides the various problems you’re having after the hack, the reason the system is designed to prevent you from doing certain functions while the car is moving is for SAFETY. Isn’t that obvious? Lexus doesn’t want you to kill yourself by fiddling with screens instead of keeping your eyes on the road. The opening screen clearly says, Make selections only when stopped, and, of course, you press the I Agree button, liar that you are. Lexus, and other car manufacturers, don’t want to be liable for numerous million-dollar lawsuits resulting from accidents that they think are inevitable.
Some of you even are watching DVD movies while driving! (Yes, I know it’s for the kids in the back, but the screen is still in the front.) Doesn’t that suggest to you that it’s not a good idea, that you’re endangering yourself, your family, or some unlucky family of six you kill in a head-on collision? What am I missing here?
Well, if you’re going to do a nav-hack then why not also:
• Take out the seat belts. They’re only extra weight and you don’t use them anyway.
• Disconnect the turn signals. They waste electricity and that clicking sound is annoying. Besides where you’re going to turn is nobody’s business.
• Remove the passenger side air bag from its housing. That area would now be ideal for storing those DVD’s you’re watching on the nav screen.
Seriously, I know the arguments: We change radio stations, climate settings, smoke, dial some cell phones, scratch our ***, all while driving, so this is no worse. Or, “I’m such a skilled driver I can do both,” or “Pulling over is a waste of my time,” or “Only my passenger would make selections.” Rationalization, all rationalization.
Now I don’t want to be a PITA as I’m fairly new to this forum, but of all the threads I’ve read regarding the Nav-hack, no one has brought up the clear potential for compromising safety, and I don’t understand why.
I mean besides the various problems you’re having after the hack, the reason the system is designed to prevent you from doing certain functions while the car is moving is for SAFETY. Isn’t that obvious? Lexus doesn’t want you to kill yourself by fiddling with screens instead of keeping your eyes on the road. The opening screen clearly says, Make selections only when stopped, and, of course, you press the I Agree button, liar that you are. Lexus, and other car manufacturers, don’t want to be liable for numerous million-dollar lawsuits resulting from accidents that they think are inevitable.
Some of you even are watching DVD movies while driving! (Yes, I know it’s for the kids in the back, but the screen is still in the front.) Doesn’t that suggest to you that it’s not a good idea, that you’re endangering yourself, your family, or some unlucky family of six you kill in a head-on collision? What am I missing here?
Well, if you’re going to do a nav-hack then why not also:
• Take out the seat belts. They’re only extra weight and you don’t use them anyway.
• Disconnect the turn signals. They waste electricity and that clicking sound is annoying. Besides where you’re going to turn is nobody’s business.
• Remove the passenger side air bag from its housing. That area would now be ideal for storing those DVD’s you’re watching on the nav screen.
Seriously, I know the arguments: We change radio stations, climate settings, smoke, dial some cell phones, scratch our ***, all while driving, so this is no worse. Or, “I’m such a skilled driver I can do both,” or “Pulling over is a waste of my time,” or “Only my passenger would make selections.” Rationalization, all rationalization.
Now I don’t want to be a PITA as I’m fairly new to this forum, but of all the threads I’ve read regarding the Nav-hack, no one has brought up the clear potential for compromising safety, and I don’t understand why.
07-11-06, 09:18 AM
#2
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I think you've gone off the deep end there buddy... The nav hack is NOT the same thing as turn signals and seat belts... With the NAV hack, you have the optionof NOT using it... You also have the option of either using or not using the turn signals and seat belts. No need to remove them to be unsafe. Lets not forget that some of us ride with passangers. I've lost count at how many times a passanger would have liked to input a destination into the nav but was unable to becuase we were moving and had to pull over first.
07-11-06, 09:20 AM
#3
IT's 9AM for me..and I'm sleepy. So I'll just say some things.
It's a safety issue here cause American's cannot drive if their life depended on it. Plus it's the American way to SUE if they do something STUPID themselves that causes the injury (i.e. burn your own hands on a HOT cup of coffee, then sue cause it's HOT)
In Japan, there is no "I Agree" screen, and they can toggle with the Navi map without the need to go through the secret menu of "override". They also have a TV Tuner from factory in the 2IS. The German autobanh, I wonder how fast they drive on there? We have the most rules in America, yet we still get into the most accidents out of all the countries. Go figure.
It's a safety issue here cause American's cannot drive if their life depended on it. Plus it's the American way to SUE if they do something STUPID themselves that causes the injury (i.e. burn your own hands on a HOT cup of coffee, then sue cause it's HOT)
In Japan, there is no "I Agree" screen, and they can toggle with the Navi map without the need to go through the secret menu of "override". They also have a TV Tuner from factory in the 2IS. The German autobanh, I wonder how fast they drive on there? We have the most rules in America, yet we still get into the most accidents out of all the countries. Go figure.
07-11-06, 09:21 AM
#4
yes it's dangerous if YOU (the driver) alters the nav when you are driving. that's exactly the resaon why lexus didn't allow that in the beginning
but if you do that hack so your passenger (in my case, my wife) can do the change when driving? by all meansi think it's a good thing
but if you do that hack so your passenger (in my case, my wife) can do the change when driving? by all meansi think it's a good thing
07-11-06, 09:29 AM
#6
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by Magellan
OK, I’m an old fuddy-duddy, a boy scout, a behind-the-times nerd, but I don’t understand this attraction to doing the Nav-hack.
I mean besides the various problems you’re having after the hack, the reason the system is designed to prevent you from doing certain functions while the car is moving is for SAFETY. Isn’t that obvious? Lexus doesn’t want you to kill yourself by fiddling with screens instead of keeping your eyes on the road. The opening screen clearly says, Make selections only when stopped, and, of course, you press the I Agree button, liar that you are. Lexus, and other car manufacturers, don’t want to be liable for numerous million-dollar lawsuits resulting from accidents that they think are inevitable.
Some of you even are watching DVD movies while driving! (Yes, I know it’s for the kids in the back, but the screen is still in the front.) Doesn’t that suggest to you that it’s not a good idea, that you’re endangering yourself, your family, or some unlucky family of six you kill in a head-on collision? What am I missing here?
Well, if you’re going to do a nav-hack then why not also:
• Take out the seat belts. They’re only extra weight and you don’t use them anyway.
• Disconnect the turn signals. They waste electricity and that clicking sound is annoying. Besides where you’re going to turn is nobody’s business.
• Remove the passenger side air bag from its housing. That area would now be ideal for storing those DVD’s you’re watching on the nav screen.
Seriously, I know the arguments: We change radio stations, climate settings, smoke, dial some cell phones, scratch our ***, all while driving, so this is no worse. Or, “I’m such a skilled driver I can do both,” or “Pulling over is a waste of my time,” or “Only my passenger would make selections.” Rationalization, all rationalization.
Now I don’t want to be a PITA as I’m fairly new to this forum, but of all the threads I’ve read regarding the Nav-hack, no one has brought up the clear potential for compromising safety, and I don’t understand why.
I mean besides the various problems you’re having after the hack, the reason the system is designed to prevent you from doing certain functions while the car is moving is for SAFETY. Isn’t that obvious? Lexus doesn’t want you to kill yourself by fiddling with screens instead of keeping your eyes on the road. The opening screen clearly says, Make selections only when stopped, and, of course, you press the I Agree button, liar that you are. Lexus, and other car manufacturers, don’t want to be liable for numerous million-dollar lawsuits resulting from accidents that they think are inevitable.
Some of you even are watching DVD movies while driving! (Yes, I know it’s for the kids in the back, but the screen is still in the front.) Doesn’t that suggest to you that it’s not a good idea, that you’re endangering yourself, your family, or some unlucky family of six you kill in a head-on collision? What am I missing here?
Well, if you’re going to do a nav-hack then why not also:
• Take out the seat belts. They’re only extra weight and you don’t use them anyway.
• Disconnect the turn signals. They waste electricity and that clicking sound is annoying. Besides where you’re going to turn is nobody’s business.
• Remove the passenger side air bag from its housing. That area would now be ideal for storing those DVD’s you’re watching on the nav screen.
Seriously, I know the arguments: We change radio stations, climate settings, smoke, dial some cell phones, scratch our ***, all while driving, so this is no worse. Or, “I’m such a skilled driver I can do both,” or “Pulling over is a waste of my time,” or “Only my passenger would make selections.” Rationalization, all rationalization.
Now I don’t want to be a PITA as I’m fairly new to this forum, but of all the threads I’ve read regarding the Nav-hack, no one has brought up the clear potential for compromising safety, and I don’t understand why.
07-11-06, 09:32 AM
#7
People make decisions everyday...
...but they don't make the right decisions all the time.
Most of the members on CL made the decision to do the Nav hack for certain reasons, whether to entertain their guests or themselves.
Most of the members on CL have also made the decision to turn off VDIM, not wear seat belts, drive 15 mph over the speed limit, tint the front of their windows, not put a front license plate on the bumper, and speed up when a light turns yellow...
As crazy as some of these are, people are truly responsible for themselves and the people they affect when making a bad decision. And as unfortunate it is if you are the one affected by another's bad decision, realize that there are reasons why we Americans have become a very litigous nation: we have a lot of stupid people out on the road that need a little bit of hard-knocks-education.
We promote "smart driving" here on CL. We do not promote "bad driving." Just because we have "tricks" posted online, doesn't mean we promote stupid actions and decision making in the part of the driver.
Safety first, and then fun...
Most of the members on CL made the decision to do the Nav hack for certain reasons, whether to entertain their guests or themselves.
Most of the members on CL have also made the decision to turn off VDIM, not wear seat belts, drive 15 mph over the speed limit, tint the front of their windows, not put a front license plate on the bumper, and speed up when a light turns yellow...
As crazy as some of these are, people are truly responsible for themselves and the people they affect when making a bad decision. And as unfortunate it is if you are the one affected by another's bad decision, realize that there are reasons why we Americans have become a very litigous nation: we have a lot of stupid people out on the road that need a little bit of hard-knocks-education.
We promote "smart driving" here on CL. We do not promote "bad driving." Just because we have "tricks" posted online, doesn't mean we promote stupid actions and decision making in the part of the driver.
Safety first, and then fun...
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07-11-06, 09:32 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by SolaraToIS
Most of your points are quite valid for the driver but it is nice to enable the features for
my co-pilot (passenger).
Just my .02
my co-pilot (passenger).
Just my .02
07-11-06, 09:34 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ramon
I think you've gone off the deep end there buddy... The nav hack is NOT the same thing as turn signals and seat belts... With the NAV hack, you have the optionof NOT using it... You also have the option of either using or not using the turn signals and seat belts. No need to remove them to be unsafe. Lets not forget that some of us ride with passangers. I've lost count at how many times a passanger would have liked to input a destination into the nav but was unable to becuase we were moving and had to pull over first.
And I really understand the logic of having a passenger set destinations while moving. My only problem with it is how hard it would be to resist the urge to do it while driving alone.
07-11-06, 09:35 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by pocky
IT's 9AM for me..and I'm sleepy. So I'll just say some things.
It's a safety issue here cause American's cannot drive if their life depended on it. Plus it's the American way to SUE if they do something STUPID themselves that causes the injury (i.e. burn your own hands on a HOT cup of coffee, then sue cause it's HOT)
In Japan, there is no "I Agree" screen, and they can toggle with the Navi map without the need to go through the secret menu of "override". They also have a TV Tuner from factory in the 2IS. The German autobanh, I wonder how fast they drive on there? We have the most rules in America, yet we still get into the most accidents out of all the countries. Go figure.
It's a safety issue here cause American's cannot drive if their life depended on it. Plus it's the American way to SUE if they do something STUPID themselves that causes the injury (i.e. burn your own hands on a HOT cup of coffee, then sue cause it's HOT)
In Japan, there is no "I Agree" screen, and they can toggle with the Navi map without the need to go through the secret menu of "override". They also have a TV Tuner from factory in the 2IS. The German autobanh, I wonder how fast they drive on there? We have the most rules in America, yet we still get into the most accidents out of all the countries. Go figure.
07-11-06, 09:37 AM
#11
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For me, I dont care about the DVD, but I DO care about being able to see who is calling me on the phone etc. Its more of an issue with a headset attached, looking down at my phone taking a call, or dialling etc. The phone being able to be seen is the best thing...
07-11-06, 09:43 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
They should tie the sensor that toggles the passenger side airbag on or off to the nav system. If there is someone sitting in the passenger seat, let them agree to a disclaimer by pressing something on the passenger side of the car (where the driver can't so easily reach.)
07-11-06, 09:47 AM
#13
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Hello
Do you really think Lexus designed their software to protect you from not being able to "resist the urge" to use it? The screen only exists because we love to sue people for our own mistakes in this country (US). This isnt a problem in Japan or Europe because maybe they can resist the urge to be stupid (I doubt that). If you think disabling some stupid lawyer jargon on a nav screen is a compromise of your safety then you are the very reason why that lawyer jargon was needed in the first place.
As such, I borrowed this disclaimer just in case.
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fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no
hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, so
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received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg
whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly
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As such, I borrowed this disclaimer just in case.
IMPORTANT: This post is intended for the use of the readers above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive
persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational
religious beliefs. If you are not the intended recipient, any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is not
authorised (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an
irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has
been used in its correct context somewhere other than in this
warning, it does not have any legal or grammatical use and may be
ignored. No animals were harmed in the transmission of this
email, although the yorkshire terrier next door is living on
borrowed time, let me tell you. Those of you with an overwhelming
fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no
hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, so
just ignore that Alert Notice from Microsoft: However, by pouring
a complete circle of salt around yourself and your computer you
can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If you have
received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg
whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly
and let it stand for 2 hours before icing.
07-11-06, 10:02 AM
#14
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There are some pracitcal applications of being able to use the navigation system while the vehicle is in motion.
I do not have an IS yet, but I do have an Eclipse navigation system in one of our vehicles (made by Fujitsu-Ten, the same people that make the navs for Lexus), and I was recently on a roadtrip in Washington D.C.
When pulling off to a rest area (even though most are digitally mapped) I like to "Suspend Guidance" so that the nav woman doesn't squak a whole bunch of useless commands to get me around a parking lot. If the parking brake sensor on my car was installed, I'd have to be stopped, with the brake engaged before the system would let me perform that task. And believe me, after 8 hours of listening to that computer generated voice shout out directions and then repeat herself, it's nice to turn her off for the simple stuff that you don't need her for.
Also, voice command still is not a perfected science. It may work well in the Lexus, but some systems don't even have it and it's nice that while your on a trip and you want to add a gas station or hotel onto your itinerary that you didn't program to begin with, and you're on a toll road where you're not exactly allowed to pull off to the side, being able to do that is an added plus.
Sure, some of these tasks may not be safe to perform in certain situations, but they should all be available for a passenger to perform. And I like knowing I can do those items if I'm the only one in the car. I believe I'm responsible enough to know when it's relatively safe to fiddle with the satnav and when it's not. I refuse a lot of phone calls while driving for that very reason.
And as for the "temptation" argument. Cocaine is a temption, prostitution is a temptation, stealing money from where you work is a temptation. Can you resist those urges? Then you can resist the satnav when it isn't safe to do so.
I do not have an IS yet, but I do have an Eclipse navigation system in one of our vehicles (made by Fujitsu-Ten, the same people that make the navs for Lexus), and I was recently on a roadtrip in Washington D.C.
When pulling off to a rest area (even though most are digitally mapped) I like to "Suspend Guidance" so that the nav woman doesn't squak a whole bunch of useless commands to get me around a parking lot. If the parking brake sensor on my car was installed, I'd have to be stopped, with the brake engaged before the system would let me perform that task. And believe me, after 8 hours of listening to that computer generated voice shout out directions and then repeat herself, it's nice to turn her off for the simple stuff that you don't need her for.
Also, voice command still is not a perfected science. It may work well in the Lexus, but some systems don't even have it and it's nice that while your on a trip and you want to add a gas station or hotel onto your itinerary that you didn't program to begin with, and you're on a toll road where you're not exactly allowed to pull off to the side, being able to do that is an added plus.
Sure, some of these tasks may not be safe to perform in certain situations, but they should all be available for a passenger to perform. And I like knowing I can do those items if I'm the only one in the car. I believe I'm responsible enough to know when it's relatively safe to fiddle with the satnav and when it's not. I refuse a lot of phone calls while driving for that very reason.
And as for the "temptation" argument. Cocaine is a temption, prostitution is a temptation, stealing money from where you work is a temptation. Can you resist those urges? Then you can resist the satnav when it isn't safe to do so.
07-11-06, 10:03 AM
#15
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Passerby
Do you really think Lexus designed their software to protect you from not being able to "resist the urge" to use it? The screen only exists because we love to sue people for our own mistakes in this country (US). This isnt a problem in Japan or Europe because maybe they can resist the urge to be stupid (I doubt that). If you think disabling some stupid lawyer jargon on a nav screen is a compromise of your safety then you are the very reason why that lawyer jargon was needed in the first place.
