akhbhaat

My apologies; I meant to say "sensible." Happens every great while, usually due to fatigue (an unfortunate consequence of being an imperfect being) - though I'm still quite sure you fully understood what I meant.

In any case, yes - we might as well just agree to disagree. This argument is pointless for us both.

250awd?

NO sarcasm intended at all! Your car is great looking. And also I wish I lived in warm weater state (i.e. no snow) then could have summer tires year-round, have black paint and drive car year round without having to worry about road salt, etc.

BTW IS350JY, were your black pearl emblems store bought or DIY mod (I see threads stating both ways). If they were store bought, would you kindly PM me with store name?

IS350JY

I tried to just buy them but they dont have them any where so i went to my lexus dealer because i know someone there and they did a 3 stage paint on them and they came out great. They are expensive though. I got them done for free because of the person i know but if i had to pay they were over 350 dollars.

diablo1

Here's my $0.02. A lot of people seem to assume that you should get the Lexus if you aren't that in to driving, and just want a nice reliable car that is luxurious, comfortable, and also goes pretty fast. From what I can tell, these people assume that the most fun thing you can do with a car is go around turns at high speeds - and the 3-series (and BMWs in general) are good for this because they have great steering feedback, progressively firmer steering as traction limits are approached, etc. So, on a winding mountain road, BMWs perform significantly better than other cars in their class.

However, other people have different ideas of what is fun. I think a lot of people (especially people defending slower cars) say that straight-line acceleration is just a small part of the overall driving experience and that you shouldn't focus on it too much. But for some people, straigh-line acceleration really is a lot of fun. Does that make them unsophisticated and simple-minded? Maybe. Does that mean they don't understand the complexities and subtleties of true performance driving? Maybe, who knows. Here's my point: in every day driving, I do a lot more straigh-line accelerating than high-speed cornering. Most of my driving is on highways that are pretty straight, but when some curves do come up, my IS handles them just fine. However, what I do a lot of is say 30-70 acceleration out of on-ramps, 0-60 acceleration out of toll booths, etc. In the situations I am normally in when I drive, the Lexus is more fun to drive because I know I can accelerate faster than most other cars out there.

If I lived in the mountains in Germany, and that was my normal driving environment, I probably would have gotten the 3-series. I still think it's a great car and have no resentment/hostilities to people who have them. However, it annoys me when BMW fans (or anyone else) say that you shouldn't buy a Lexus if you care about having fun when you drive. I certainly appreciate the 3-series' advantages over my car in terms of driving dynamics. But I still have a lot of fun when I drive my car, and I bought it because, among many other things, I thought it was a blast to drive.

y2ks2k

Don’t forget that people way over do the "handling" thing. The IS350 has been shown to pull the same handling figures from lateral G's to Slaloms (when compared correctly with traction off) . I think this is what people just don’t understanding (and yes I know they will ignore these simple facts). If the IS350 can put up the same numbers but yet in their terms not feel as connected, maybe they THEY are wrong. I know for damn sure that my IS350 feels a heck of a lot better in a corner then my Sti because the Sti would give you an arm workout doing it while jarring every bone in your body. Sure I felt more connected with my Sti, but what is wrong with putting up the same numbers and doing it smoothly?

The simple fact is that the IS350 (not being dramatic) spanks the 330 in a strait line and it keeps right up with it in handling. Numbers are numbers period and “feel” is “feel”.. feel is subjective and I have never felt anything special in a BMW.. in fact… I feel numb in one (as compared to an S2000 and Sti)… The "ultimate driving machine" is easily bested by a $30000 Sti and S2000 in *feel*.

Again, if I wanted just *feel* in a car... I would have kept my Sti 4 door sedan. The IS is the FULL package.

diablo1

Well, there is a noticeable difference in the steering feel, and I do think the BMW feels more sporty in that sense - more tension in the steering wheel and more precise in corners. I don't know if you can quantitatively measure that, but maybe there is some way. It's not just g's and slalom numbers, but it's definitely something real.

It just annoys me when people say that, for basically this reason alone, the BMW is more of a driver's car than the Lexus. It's one of many factors, and there are many different drivers out there with many different preferences. On the BMW boards I've read there is definitely this attitude that "If you don't choose BMW you just don't get it." Although of course there are also some more reasonable people who realize that different people value different aspects of the driving experience.

That may be a fair statement for people who choose, say, and ES over the 3-series. They probably are less into performance driving and more into luxury, because that is what the ES is designed for. But the IS and 3-series are both definitely "driver's cars."

IS350JY

I totally agree. The IS has the same g's when it comes to statistics in handling and it is definatly much faster then the 330.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Click here to see what caught my eye about the IS350.

As a diehard gearhead and long time Toyota fan, there was no other option. I can fix feel. It might cost a couple of dollars, but hey, so does hp. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

Anyone who's followed Lexus/Toyota/Scion knows the cars are almost always heaviest in class and have relatively numb steering. The MkI MR2 and the MRS are the exceptions, not the rule. I own a TT Supra, and have owned one since '94. Every single magazine test complained about poor feel in the steering, and it's (still) heaviest in class (except for the AWD Mitsu VR4) weight.

When I saw the new IS, I really hoped it would be different, but as always, Toyota opts to overengineer for reliability (which IS one of the BIG reasons I like Toyota) and the car comes out chubby. So be it.

I've worked on a few BMWs. I really don't worry much about maintaining cars, I've been doing it for a long time, and there's nothing I fear doing to a car except bodywork (because I'm no good at it.) So, I won't mind working on my IS. But from everything I know and have been told, including by my BMW rabid friends, I will be tinkering with a BMW constantly. I'll give up a little road feel for a lower TCO - more time driving, less time wrenching. And if it really drives me nuts, I'll just fix it the way I want it, the same way I did my Supra.

Koz

I wrote this in a different thread but it really applies better here:

I find that ALL the comparisons I've read are very subjective and based on carefully selected criteria. For instance; Car and Driver did a very comprehensive comparison but showed they definitely were bias and purposely left out vital features that would have put the BMW lower in the raking, let me give you examples. One of the most important aspects of comparison is reliability. Nowhere in the comparison criteria was reliability used. Yet, very subjective criteria was used, such as: int/ext styling, rebates/discounts, got-to-have-it-factor, etc. The BMW test model had serious electrical problems and developed a problem with its ABS where they hit the brakes and the car did a 360 at 70 mph. Because of the braking problem they could not perform the braking test from 70 mph, so they used a previous test (which by the way was not as short as the IS). The reason I bring this up as an example is because braking distance was not even used as part of the criteria. Let’s see, accelerates faster and stops sooner, Hmm! You can see where I'm going with this. When all was said and done the IS came 1 point (213 to 212) less then the 330i, which put it in second place. The funny part to me is when ever any BMW enthusiast talk about comparing the 330i to the IS350 they make it sound like it is this far superior vehicle. I just don't see it. I test drove both vehicles and can honestly say that the 330i does feel more like a sports car but does not come anywhere near the overall power of the IS 350. In the real world (on the street) the IS is so close in the other performance areas that I can see why BMW had to drastically re-design the 330i.

The 330i showed problems with the push botton start system, the ABS (serious issues), air-bag warning system, the A/C struggled in the heat and not one of these issues effected its rating! Sorry I personally don't see how anyone can honestly say the 330i is the better vehicle.

Koz

Bichon

Interesting. In the break in thread, you seemed to be bemoaning Toyota's decision to run a particularly rich F/A ratio at WOT, trading a bit of top end power for a more bulletproof design.

ff_

Or the IS350, for that matter.

The problem with the question that's been presented, is that it leaves itself open to any interpretation. Which car is better... in what way? Better handling? More fun to drive? More luxurious? Your answer would be different for each possible result to the question.

ff_

You realize the problem with results from the skidpad & slalom tests they do for the car mags?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

ALL the OEMs do this. I don't bemoan the fact they do, if I ran the factory, I'd do exactly the same thing. I just know what happens if you choose to change your risk profile. Leaning it out for best power means a minor failure can cook the engine. If it's fat rich, you won't lose the engine. If it's on or near the edge and something goes wrong, the factory is buying you a new engine. I consistently set up street engines for conservative power. Not absolute best, but a little fat just in case.

Bichon

Do you have the $7,000 factory scan tool? Or are there more affordable third-party alternatives? (for full functionality -- not just reading and clearing DTCs) I was kind of spoiled in the world of Audi, where a few hundred dollars would buy laptop software (VAG-COM, VDS-pro, Lemmiwinks) and DLC-to-PC interface adapter with the same functionality as a factory scan tool.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

No, but I've been thinking about it with all the Lexus personalization toys. You're talking about the Vetronix testers? The biggest issue from my perspective is being able to reflash the ECM, and there's no way to do that right now. I don't have access to the checksum generator for Toyota, and no one I know does either. I know someone at one of the well known tuning shops claims they've cracked it, but I have no real proof it's true.

There is a third party scan tool, but it's $7k. That's the Vetronix. Autoengenuity also have a scanning software/hardware package to work with a PC/Palm device, but it doesn't look like it's made to do modifications.

Even then, you can't do a reflash with anything but Toyota approved software. It's the one thing that makes me jealous of every other manufacturer. Toyco has not been cracked. Honda has Hondata, GM is a completely open book, Ford's been cracked, and most others as well. Toyco has only recently adopted flash memory for their ECMs, so they've been pretty stealthy for some time. Previous iterations used CPUs with onboard ROM with fusible links to prevent code download and reverse engineering. My Supra has a G-Force ECM, but it really only touches the maps, and modding it requires a PROM burner. Nothing like making sure the customer can't do anything without charging something...