No Nav destination override on '07 IS
09-08-06, 09:45 PM
#151
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: So Cal
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You misunderstood my point. I'm an advocate of using the Override 'hack' (Menu, volume, upper left, lower left, etc, etc) since it is a valid way to get to the diagnostic menus. I'm not one to take out the Nav unit and start cutting wires, to trick the system. If you read my posts in this thread, I have compared the Lexus gen V Nav to the Acura Nav and highlighted the numerous areas in which the Lexus Nav falls short. As I pointed out with the VSC cut-off switch that Lexus now has in the '07, I'm hopeful that Lexus will also enable more functionality with the Nav in future versions. There is NO Hidden agenda, just good ol' fashioned lobbying and soap box standing . . .
09-09-06, 06:28 AM
#152
Lexus Test Driver
Wow, I guess I don't get it.
Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
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Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
.
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09-09-06, 06:37 AM
#153
Wow, I guess I don't get it.
Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
.
.
Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
.
.
09-09-06, 07:52 AM
#154
Lexus Champion
Wow, I guess I don't get it.
Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
.
.
Some of you guys make it sound like there is something sinister behind this discussion of doing the "hack". Maybe it's some negative connotation associated with the term "hack", but the agenda is far from "hidden" ... it's very clearly and openly an effort to free up some of the functionality blocked by the mfr.
Now, you may disagree with that effort, and that's okay. In fact, I personally don't like anyone watching DVD movies while driving. But I DO think some of the other functions - such as full access to the Bluetooth - should have been available from the start, and if someone wants to restore those functions by cutting some wires, that's their perogative.
But it's not something dark and hateful or illegal, and in fact, some other car mfr's actually enable these features that Lexus blocks. So relax a little. If these guys want to modify their cars, just remember ... they paid their 40 grand like you did, so they're free to hack away.
.
.
09-09-06, 11:09 AM
#155
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
09-09-06, 11:18 AM
#156
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
Oh ya, I've "hacked" my Acura navigation system to display different pictures, etc... It had no features disabled from the factory, but I wanted to get in there and play around anyway.
09-09-06, 12:27 PM
#157
Driver
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: OH
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There are some people who like to hack, to do something "geeky" to whatever they own (I'm one of those). I don't think there's a problem with that, especially when it is on something they purchased and they understand any risk that they may assume by performing such a hack (such as warranty, or an accident).
Now, if you are hacking to do something that is illegal (In Ohio, you cannot have a video playing on any screen that is within eyesight of the driver), then you assume responsiblity of a ticket if you get one, or an accident if you are in one. But I would hope, and I guess this is just an assupmtion, that you use some common sense when using any device in the car. The nav system/radio can, in it's stock form, already take your attention away from the road. I would hope people could just be safe about when they use a device, any device, in the car.
Now, if you are hacking to do something that is illegal (In Ohio, you cannot have a video playing on any screen that is within eyesight of the driver), then you assume responsiblity of a ticket if you get one, or an accident if you are in one. But I would hope, and I guess this is just an assupmtion, that you use some common sense when using any device in the car. The nav system/radio can, in it's stock form, already take your attention away from the road. I would hope people could just be safe about when they use a device, any device, in the car.
09-09-06, 01:24 PM
#158
Lexus Champion
Apparently, I hold a minority opinion here, but that’s OK. However, in my view there IS something wrong with performing the hack, maybe not for you electronic gurus who carry around wire cutters wherever you go, and maybe not for you ex-Indy drivers who believe you are so highly skilled that you can walk, chew gum, and manually input destinations at the same time; but maybe for some other people who may do the hack as instructed here and later kill themselves in the process there is a problem. Sure, it’s not likely, but there is a risk, albeit small. At any rate it is inaccurate to just say there is “nothing wrong” with doing it. After all, the captain of the Titanic, highly skilled after 30 years of crossing the Atlantic, thought there was nothing wrong with going at 21 knots one more time.
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
No I think some people agree with you but I don't think there is a connection between performing the hack and going off and doing bad/illegal things. The hack by itself is harmless and quite easy and no one who performs that minor operation is guilty of anything other than maybe a voided warranty (for that piece of equipment). My whole argument was don't expect Lexus to just give you this functionality, if you want it, go get it for yourself...with the hack. Because I am aware of so many hacks that ARE illegal simply by performing the hack even if you don't "act" on it, you can't fault this one.
09-09-06, 01:25 PM
#159
Lexus Test Driver
Apparently, I hold a minority opinion here, but that’s OK. However, in my view there IS something wrong with performing the hack, maybe not for you electronic gurus who carry around wire cutters wherever you go, and maybe not for you ex-Indy drivers who believe you are so highly skilled that you can walk, chew gum, and manually input destinations at the same time; but maybe for some other people who may do the hack as instructed here and later kill themselves in the process there is a problem. Sure, it’s not likely, but there is a risk, albeit small. At any rate it is inaccurate to just say there is “nothing wrong” with doing it.
After all, the captain of the Titanic, highly skilled after 30 years of crossing the Atlantic, thought there was nothing wrong with going at 21 knots one more time.
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
If so, I guess I have to ask why. And don't give me the red herring of "safety" ... life is full of risks, and this one ranks so low on the scale that it hardly registers. Not to get personal, but if you have some kind of disability that prevents you from managing multiple tasks safely, I respect that and am glad you don't attempt them. But for others, it's a personal responsibility thing and they should do as Acura properly cautions: " ... exercise you own good judgement".
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09-09-06, 01:33 PM
#160
Lexus Champion
Acura doesn't know how to spell "judgement" like it should be "judgment"; that always annoyed me reading it everyday. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment#Spelling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment#Spelling
09-09-06, 02:37 PM
#161
Lexus Test Driver
Acura doesn't know how to spell "judgement" like it should be "judgment"; that always annoyed me reading it everyday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment#Spelling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment#Spelling
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...gement&x=0&y=0
And being the hardnose I am, if MS Word tries to correct me when I type in "judgement", I just tell it to f*** off.
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09-09-06, 04:08 PM
#162
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Apparently, I hold a minority opinion here, but that’s OK. However, in my view there IS something wrong with performing the hack, maybe not for you electronic gurus who carry around wire cutters wherever you go, and maybe not for you ex-Indy drivers who believe you are so highly skilled that you can walk, chew gum, and manually input destinations at the same time; but maybe for some other people who may do the hack as instructed here and later kill themselves in the process there is a problem. Sure, it’s not likely, but there is a risk, albeit small. At any rate it is inaccurate to just say there is “nothing wrong” with doing it. After all, the captain of the Titanic, highly skilled after 30 years of crossing the Atlantic, thought there was nothing wrong with going at 21 knots one more time.
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
And the other thing, although I can’t back it up, I have the feeling that if Lexus gave you the full functionality you want, you would find some other reason to break out the wire cutters. Perhaps the screen colors are bad, or you have to press too hard with your fingers to make a selection, and you’re not going to stand for it!
Mike and I are on the same wavelength here. The other day I was driving and needed to put in an address, so I turn off the block, and start the process. It failed. I know I don't have enough attention to continue driving AND troubleshoot WHY I can't put in a local address to the biggest CAT dealer in Central California. So I pulled over and dealt with it. I exercised my own good judgment and minimized the risk to myself and others by pulling over and stopping to sort out the issue.
BTW, I'm not an ex-Indy driver, but I have roadraced motorcycles for a bit and done some track time in karts and cars, and I've learned exactly how much attention I have, and how to manage it pretty effectively. I know my limits.
Your argument seems to center on making this available to those who don't know their limits and will use this to the detriment of others. All fine and well, but that interferes with natural selection, and IMHO, we've done far too much of that in the US with absurd torts laws and product liability lawsuits. Clint said it best: "A man's got to know his limitations."
09-09-06, 05:03 PM
#163
And the problem with that is exactly what? I really don't understand your resentment at people for wanting to modify this or any other part of their own cars! Do you feel the same bitterness toward people who buy aftermarket wheels, or maybe tint their windows, or add cold air intakes or woodgrain shifter *****?
If so, I guess I have to ask why. And don't give me the red herring of "safety" ... life is full of risks, and this one ranks so low on the scale that it hardly registers. Not to get personal, but if you have some kind of disability that prevents you from managing multiple tasks safely, I respect that and am glad you don't attempt them. But for others, it's a personal responsibility thing and they should do as Acura properly cautions: " ... exercise you own good judgement".
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If so, I guess I have to ask why. And don't give me the red herring of "safety" ... life is full of risks, and this one ranks so low on the scale that it hardly registers. Not to get personal, but if you have some kind of disability that prevents you from managing multiple tasks safely, I respect that and am glad you don't attempt them. But for others, it's a personal responsibility thing and they should do as Acura properly cautions: " ... exercise you own good judgement".
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If you resent my view and somehow take it personally, that’s not my problem and not my intent. But it doesn’t give you license to trivialize my opinions by suggesting I’m somehow mentally disabled. Why not just skip my posts and move on?
As far as getting personal again, you may want to know that I have a commercial pilot’s license with multi-engine, helicopter and instrument ratings. When I fly, it’s by the book. There are no hacks of any kind in the equipment I use, and there’s no bending of any rule. To do otherwise would compromise not only my safety but the safety of my passengers, who are often my wife and kids. To have an attitude other than that is incomprehensible to me and to most fellow pilots.
I guess, in my mind, it carries over to driving automobiles. Of course you will say there’s a difference. Perhaps. But with all the carnage on the road compared to airplanes, I can’t help but disagree.
09-09-06, 05:13 PM
#164
When I fly, it’s by the book. There are no hacks of any kind in the equipment I use, and there’s no bending of any rule. To do otherwise would compromise not only my safety but the safety of my passengers, who are often my wife and kids. To have an attitude other than that is incomprehensible to me and to most fellow pilots.
09-09-06, 09:28 PM
#165