kensteele

So I have to diagree. I drove 120,000 miles with the Acura Nav from March 2001 until Nov 2005 and I used it extensively. I've had the Lexus Nav today since Nov 2005. If I purchased another car today and they could install the Acura Nav or the Lexus Nav, I would choose the Lexus Nav instantly without a doubt. I have never seen the new Acura Nav so I'm going off the CL Type S. So I guess it is a matter of opinion but I consider the Lexus Nav much better than the Acura Nav.

kensteele

I know why. Mike from Texas, can you answer this for duck?

Technique

Go check out the nav on the new RL, it's pretty dope... Way better than the old one in the CL-S... Granted, for many years the alpine one in the CL-S was the best, but ya, if you compare it against the new gen 5 lexus nav, the lexus nav wins, but it's not a fair comparison... Compare the latest acura nav vs. the latest lexus nav, I think the acura one is better... Although you may still like the lexus better...

But then again, who cares about your opinion Ken, it's "just plain dumb"

Tuxlex

Let me start out by saying that I have been trying to hack the NAV DVD.

It is my understanding that the NAV unit will not accept an older
version of the DVD than it is currently using. It will however update
automaticaly to a newer version when a newer one is detected.
(This info is located in a file called VERSION.TXT on the DVD)

However, during my NAV hardware modification session, I completely
disconnected the unit from the car for a few minutes. This seemed to
completely erase it's memory of the current NAV version. It performed a
complete and lengthy software load with confirming dialogs. This was a
much more involved load than when one just removes and reinserts
the DVD.

The newer version will have more new roads and POI's on it. This
would be more desirable obviously. (The file that contains this
information is called ALLDATA.KIWI on the DVD).

The file that contains the "Override" programing function on the DVD
is called LOADING.KIWI. If someone can send me the '07 DVD files, I
am willing to try to make a DVD that contains a merge of the versions.

Mike_TX

LOL. I'm not sure what the question is, since he seems to be saying two different things.

But to answer the question I think he's asking, it's not a matter of waiving your rights, it's all about protecting Lexus. And, no, you don't have to read something to sign it and be liable for what you've signed. You are presumed to have reasonable intelligence, and since it is your responsibility to read something before agreeing to it, it is considering binding on you.

You see, the "Agree" statement on the Nav is actually a contract. By "signing it" (clicking on "I Accept"), you are accepting its terms. A legal contract requires three things - competent parties, consideration and acceptance. The consideration part is Lexus providing you the navigation hardware and access. The acceptance is your clicking "I Accept". And as stated, you are considered a competent party to the agreement unless you can show otherwise.

Lexus can theoretically use this contract as defense if you should bring suit against them for injury or damages arising out of your use of the Nav unit in a manner contrary to the conditions outlined on the nag screen.

I guess I just don't understand why there isn't an "I Accept" button required for use of your cruise control, your radio, your windshield wipers, your power windows, your A/C, etc., etc., etc., since using those things can contribute to an accident.
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kensteele

^^^Totally disagree with you Mike. Not trying to argue and I won't because we're getting OT but that button isn't a legal binding contract.

Technique

No such thing as OT anymore, lol

cpsmith516

that "I Agree" button is just as binding as any EULA click through on a software installation, and if you don't believe it's legally binding, try to install Windows XP on a few 1000 machines and see if Bill Gates and his band of merry lawyers don't come looking for you.

socalJD

Yes, not an apples to apples comparison. I agree that the Lexus gen V Nav is much better than the version in your '01 CL (ver 2.1 ?) - no contest. But I have an '05 Mdx (ver 4.13) and it's CLEARLY better than my IS gen V - also keep in mind it's not the latest Acura version since it doesn't have the real time traffic module available now in the RL and the '07 Rdx & Mdx. Trust me on this KenS, currently the Acura Nav is lightyears ahead of Lexus. . .

kensteele

So who are the two parties that are bound in this so-called contract. We know Lexus is one of them. Who is the other? Pick one...lol.

1)The vehicle owner
2)The driver
3)The person who pressed the button
4)Everybody in the car
5)All of the above
6)None of the above

I say the answer is #6. I say pressing the I-Agree button is not the same as an EULA. With computer software, you make the purchase and whoever owns the license is the person bound by the agreement, not the person who clicks on the EULA I-Agree button and not the person who installs the software and not the computer that the software is on. Only the owner of the software license is bound by the terms of the EULA.

There is no contract with the Nav software....face it.

kensteele

wow, i guess so. i haven't seen new Acura so i guess i better go take a look at an RL. i do know that navs just back and forth and leapfrog over each other year after year, so the lexus 2is nav is new or not new for 2006?

kensteele

This is the warning notification on the nav screen:

Drive safely and obey traffic rules. Watching this creen while the vehicle is in motion can lead to serious accident. Make selections only while stopped. Some map data may be incorrect. Read safety instructions in Navigation Manual.

If this is a contract, then it is one-sided. Lexus doesn't agree to anything. I know it was said that Lexus agrees to provide "whatever follows: access" if you "Agree" but this is hardly a contract to provide service. And you agreeing to the above language by pressing the button, you hardly agree to give up your rights to damages that you can prove resulted from "whatever follows." I think you are reading too much into this simple screen.

If anything, I bet I can show where Lexus asks you to make selections while stopped and they back this up by disabling selections while not stopped BUT then they turn around and make other selections enabled while not stopped? I guess the enabled ones are the ones that they think is OK to use while not stopped, correct?

This screen is basically a warning that Lexus can use to show "we did our part to warn the nav user that might claim they didn't know that this device can be dangerous to use while driving." Now Lexus is "less negligent" by putting a potentially distracting device like a nav in front of the driver within reach. Not absolve, but less negligent. Or so Lexus thinks, right or wrong, the idea is to reduce/limit/eliminate the extent of liability. This screen does it...and does it well.

So I'm going to stop right here. I'm not a lawyer. All I can tell you is why I think this screen appears and acts the way it does. Many people would like to eliminate this screen, not because people feel they are losing their rights by acknowledging it, but because it is a nuisance to them. The truth of the matter is, American's are going to sue if the nav causes an accident. And Lexus will have to defend themselves and they will use in part, the I-Agree screen. If a jury thinks Lexus is not liable, they will clear them. If a jury thinks Lexus is partially liable, they will find as such. If a jury thinks Lexus is liable and negligent, punitive damages will probably result.

Mike_TX

Well, if you believe it's not a contract, then what's the point of having it all? Just being able to say "We warned them" isn't enough to absolve them of any responsibility. Hell, they say that in the Owner's Manual.

So, unless it IS a contract, it is meaningless ... no more than a suggestion of sorts. In which case Lexus would have nothing to hang its hat on. No, for it to have the force of law behind it, the "I Agree" screen has to be a device to force the driver or other operator to take some physical action to acknowledge the agreement in order to even activate the Nav unit. It is if nothing else an implied contract.

And while Lexus can't MAKE you read the warning before touching the button, they can at least say in their defense that they exercised reasonable care in making the unit inoperable until you agree to its terms. Face it - it's not much, but it's all they have.

And given that it's a really flawed execution, I seem to be finding you agreeing with me that it's so weak as to be dumb. Just give drivers credit for having a modicum of good sense, and let it go. After all, it would be really, really difficult to make a case that Lexus was at fault for an accident caused by a driver's inattention, whether he was fiddling with the Nav or fiddling with his radio, or fiddling with his girlfriend at the time it occurred.
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TimboIS

What software hacks? Any hack is still purely speculation (er, wishful thinking).

Tuxlex

By software hack, I believe he is refering to the "Override" button
in the service menu. In other words, permanently loosing the "Override" feature if you upgrade to a new NAV DVD.