No Nav destination override on '07 IS
09-02-06, 07:26 AM
#76
09-02-06, 07:37 AM
#77
Lexus Test Driver
I guess I really have to say I'm surprised the Lexus Nav is configured this way. Other OEM Nav's I've seen had a basic OS built into the unit, and the DVD was only for holding map data.
In fact, most Nav's require 2 discs for a map upgrade - a CD or DVD to "prep" the system for the upgrade and make any necessary changes to the OS - and a 2nd DVD for the new map data.
So, are you sure the IS's Nav operating system is also on the map DVD, or is it possible those .kiwi files are just there to access the built-in OS? IOW, are they actually executables themselves, or just something like .dll's?
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In fact, most Nav's require 2 discs for a map upgrade - a CD or DVD to "prep" the system for the upgrade and make any necessary changes to the OS - and a 2nd DVD for the new map data.
So, are you sure the IS's Nav operating system is also on the map DVD, or is it possible those .kiwi files are just there to access the built-in OS? IOW, are they actually executables themselves, or just something like .dll's?
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Last edited by Mike_TX; 09-02-06 at 07:40 AM.
09-02-06, 10:43 AM
#78
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<---- not a lawyer
Regarding the legal aspects,
I think this very discussion illustrates the problem Toyota faces. Sure, on the surface it would appear that one releases Toyota from liability with the Nav Nag, but in this day and age, there are no legal guarantees. Lately it seems the quality of the argument trumps precident and statute. Concidering the seriously deep pockets Toyota would represent, the only guarantee is that sooner or later Toyota WILL get sued because the Nav. The Nav Nag, and the Nav lock-out gives Toyota the ability to say they've done all they can be reasonably be expected to do, to ensure both the driver, and the driving public from the risks associated with in-car navigation. Just as bars can be sued for serving intoxicated patrons, the argument could be made to extend the same line of thinking to automobile manufacturers who endangered the public at large. Pick any of the recent "curious" rulings in the appellate courts, no God in The Pledge, imminet domain, etc. Are you sure about anything in the law?
I think the Nav Nag, and Nav lock-out are Toyota's strategy to best deal with their potetial exposure to litigation.
Remember, just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Regarding the legal aspects,
I think this very discussion illustrates the problem Toyota faces. Sure, on the surface it would appear that one releases Toyota from liability with the Nav Nag, but in this day and age, there are no legal guarantees. Lately it seems the quality of the argument trumps precident and statute. Concidering the seriously deep pockets Toyota would represent, the only guarantee is that sooner or later Toyota WILL get sued because the Nav. The Nav Nag, and the Nav lock-out gives Toyota the ability to say they've done all they can be reasonably be expected to do, to ensure both the driver, and the driving public from the risks associated with in-car navigation. Just as bars can be sued for serving intoxicated patrons, the argument could be made to extend the same line of thinking to automobile manufacturers who endangered the public at large. Pick any of the recent "curious" rulings in the appellate courts, no God in The Pledge, imminet domain, etc. Are you sure about anything in the law?
I think the Nav Nag, and Nav lock-out are Toyota's strategy to best deal with their potetial exposure to litigation.
Remember, just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
09-02-06, 11:09 AM
#79
Lexus Test Driver
<---- not a lawyer
Regarding the legal aspects,
I think this very discussion illustrates the problem Toyota faces. Sure, on the surface it would appear that one releases Toyota from liability with the Nav Nag, but in this day and age, there are no legal guarantees. Lately it seems the quality of the argument trumps precident and statute. Concidering the seriously deep pockets Toyota would represent, the only guarantee is that sooner or later Toyota WILL get sued because the Nav. The Nav Nag, and the Nav lock-out gives Toyota the ability to say they've done all they can be reasonably be expected to do, to ensure both the driver, and the driving public from the risks associated with in-car navigation. Just as bars can be sued for serving intoxicated patrons, the argument could be made to extend the same line of thinking to automobile manufacturers who endangered the public at large. Pick any of the recent "curious" rulings in the appellate courts, no God in The Pledge, imminet domain, etc. Are you sure about anything in the law?
I think the Nav Nag, and Nav lock-out are Toyota's strategy to best deal with their potetial exposure to litigation.
Remember, just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Regarding the legal aspects,
I think this very discussion illustrates the problem Toyota faces. Sure, on the surface it would appear that one releases Toyota from liability with the Nav Nag, but in this day and age, there are no legal guarantees. Lately it seems the quality of the argument trumps precident and statute. Concidering the seriously deep pockets Toyota would represent, the only guarantee is that sooner or later Toyota WILL get sued because the Nav. The Nav Nag, and the Nav lock-out gives Toyota the ability to say they've done all they can be reasonably be expected to do, to ensure both the driver, and the driving public from the risks associated with in-car navigation. Just as bars can be sued for serving intoxicated patrons, the argument could be made to extend the same line of thinking to automobile manufacturers who endangered the public at large. Pick any of the recent "curious" rulings in the appellate courts, no God in The Pledge, imminet domain, etc. Are you sure about anything in the law?
I think the Nav Nag, and Nav lock-out are Toyota's strategy to best deal with their potetial exposure to litigation.
Remember, just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
You're right, Chadowe, and Ken's and my friendly debates merely illustrate two views of the same issue. I see your (and his) point, and I suspect you both see mine as well.
I guess I am in part just expressing frustration over Toyota's/Lexus' lack of guts on this, since it cripples such an otherwise useful tool. And why they picked the Navigation system to be so cautious about also puzzles me.
If every mfr took such an over-cautious attitude, we'd be signing waivers of liability everytime we used an electrical appliance (wow, you can get shocked with those things!), bathtubs (people drown in those damn things), garage doors (kids and pets get squished, and they occasionally fall down, too), pencils (watch out, you'll poke your eye out!), kitchen knives (cut your finger smooth off), etc., etc., etc.
And yes, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not much ... 'way more people fall and injure themselves annually in bathtubs than are injured in Navigation accidents. 'Way more.
So it just seems to me that they've somehow fixated on this one device, and in spite of covering themselves with "Accept" screens and Owner's Manuals and other warnings, they take away much of the functionality that makes it such a great tool.
Okay, 'nuff said. I'm just so glad I have an '06 that I can un-cripple!
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09-03-06, 12:30 AM
#80
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09-03-06, 06:15 AM
#82
And if for some reason you are switch-adverse, just wait a while and Tux and myself will update the V6 (2007) Nav DVD to work with the bypass.
09-03-06, 11:57 PM
#84
Tech Info Resource
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What I just sent Lexus:
There is no other way to get their attention to this issue. Griping on this (and other) forum(s) is not nearly as effective as sending a direct message to the marketing team that future sales depend on meeting the competition head-on.
I used http://auth.owners.lexus.com/lexusow...l/ContactLexus to contact them. There is more power in logging in and telling them they failed to meet your expectations. The only thing better is to indicate you purchased another vehicle because this is a key feature.
Installing a switch which may void my entire nav system warranty is not a good option. The right fix is in software, and it's a simple choice, not a hardware design problem.
Comment: disabling POI and address inputs while in motion is a mistake. I work in sales and frequently need to update my destination while enroute. Lexus is missing the mark here, and by disabling the ability to bypass this lockout in the new '07 IS, you have ensured I will never purchase another Lexus with a nagivation system.
Other manufacturers allow enroute updates, and the most popular aftermarket units also allow updates while in motion, and offer a more feature rich product.
IMO, Lexus is missing the mark here and allowing the competition and the aftermarket to provide a superior product. I frequently use the completely undocumented Over Ride on the Service menu to allow inputs while in motion. I am now concerned that choosing to update my map DVD will permanently disable my ability to update my destination because this menu is not available in the '07 ISx50. Unless this is changed, this will be my last Lexus navigation purchase.
Other manufacturers allow enroute updates, and the most popular aftermarket units also allow updates while in motion, and offer a more feature rich product.
IMO, Lexus is missing the mark here and allowing the competition and the aftermarket to provide a superior product. I frequently use the completely undocumented Over Ride on the Service menu to allow inputs while in motion. I am now concerned that choosing to update my map DVD will permanently disable my ability to update my destination because this menu is not available in the '07 ISx50. Unless this is changed, this will be my last Lexus navigation purchase.
I used http://auth.owners.lexus.com/lexusow...l/ContactLexus to contact them. There is more power in logging in and telling them they failed to meet your expectations. The only thing better is to indicate you purchased another vehicle because this is a key feature.
Installing a switch which may void my entire nav system warranty is not a good option. The right fix is in software, and it's a simple choice, not a hardware design problem.
09-04-06, 12:37 AM
#85
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09-04-06, 03:38 AM
#86
lol, it will not void the warranty... Agreed, in principle they should not cripple the nav at all, it should be like Acura, but it's not, and probably never will be, so a simply flip of a switch is the best we can do. And please, no responses about voiding the warranty, sheesh...
09-04-06, 04:14 AM
#87
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Sure. And I just call you to defend me?
09-04-06, 06:05 AM
#88
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How does one go about getting and insalling said switch???
09-04-06, 07:47 AM
#89
A quick search revealed this...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234401
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=193739
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234401
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=193739
09-05-06, 04:17 PM
#90
Tech Info Resource
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Reply from Lexus:
The bold is added, but underscores how to remove the inertia from change.
Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction. We are dedicated to providing superior service. In circumstances that require our attention, we will assist in the resolution process.
Your interest in Lexus is appreciated.
We make every effort to manufacture a quality product by researching, testing, and constantly monitoring performance. Consumer opinion and perception also play an active role in our ongoing efforts to lead the automobile industry in quality, innovation, styling, and reliability.
It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers.
If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., or Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Standard Time.
Sincerely,
Tyrone Cadle
Lexus Customer Satisfaction
Your interest in Lexus is appreciated.
We make every effort to manufacture a quality product by researching, testing, and constantly monitoring performance. Consumer opinion and perception also play an active role in our ongoing efforts to lead the automobile industry in quality, innovation, styling, and reliability.
It is through communications such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers.
If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., or Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Standard Time.
Sincerely,
Tyrone Cadle
Lexus Customer Satisfaction