My 250 had over 5 degrees of toe-in on the rear on the standard set up. I fitted the Eibach Pro-set (1.4" drop front and 1.0" rear) and now have just over 1 degree of negative camber, but have adjusted the toe-in on the rear to match the fronts at around 1 degree plus a few minutes.
I may be looking to build camber adjustment for the front when I fit the Volks 19" diameter and wider rims.

 

This is the first time that I have seen this thread and all I can say is that CAMBER DOES WEAR TIRES IF IT IS OUT OF SPEC...plain and simple..bottom line..now caster on the other hand will not cause tire wear.

 

some reading material on toe, caster, and camber.
all you need to know about it

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

 

Not in my experience. You need to exceed -2.5 degrees to see any effect on the tires from camber. However, 2mm of incorrect toe will cup the outside edge or scuff the inside edge down to the belts in short order. I have a great deal of practical experience with this.

 

If you take a car that rolled off of the assembly line and the front camber is set a t -.3 degrees and then take that same car and adjust the camber to -2.5 degrees while adjusting all other settings to spec I can guarantee in no time at all you will see increased inner edge wear, when you load the tire more on the inner edge for - camber or on the outer edge for + camber the increased load(being the weight of the vehicle) is transfered to that edge and thus has no choice but to wear the tire there first. I have been professionally repairing cars for over 20 years now and the laws of physics haven't changed in that time as far as I know of, now maybe on race cars it doesn't wear as fast because of tighter suspensions or different alignment specs that don't work well for street applications ( I don't work on race cars) but on the average street car you will be seeing the discount tire man sooner than you want to

 

Where has anyone gone to get their alignment done in LA county?

 

I've done exactly what you said with Supras and had no issues with inner edge wear at -1.5 degrees to -2.0 degrees. I ran -1.6 degrees on my Scion for 30k miles and never had an inside edge wear problem, and the suspension went on a friend's car. It still isn't showing any signs of abnormal wear. Sorry, camber killing tires just isn't true. I've also consulted with the only guy I trust to do alignments. He's been doing nothing but alignments for 35 years. Same thing - camber doesn't hurt tires, toe does.

Maybe you should actually try it before saying it is the cause.

 

Check this out.


http://www.optionimports.com/tepibaupmo.html

Tein Upper Strut Mount.

 

Let me put this another way and see if you can see what is really up here. The total amount of camber, regardless if it is positive or negative, is not in debate here. the difference in camber from factory specs to actual values is the problem. If you take a car that was designed to run -1 degree of camber and run it at -1.5 you propbably won't see much difference in tire wear, especially if you maintain your tires properly. Now if the car was DESIGNED to run with 0 camber and you adjust it to 1.5 degrees positive or negative you will see a difference, I guartantee it. I am not doubting that you say your 2 cars didn't see any tire wear, as far as I know your cars are designed to run at -1 degrees of camber and with where you set it at there wouldn't be any real difference in tire wear. Keep in mind also that MODIFIED SUSPENSIONS will change how tires wear at different settings verses stock setups.

I was really going to try to ignore your last comment of "Maybe you should actually try it before saying it is the cause" but you sound so much like a know it all I can't resist...nevermind I'll be the bigger man here

 

OEM MkIV Supra alignment - 0 30’ ± 45’ front camber.

'05 Scion tC -0°31' +- 45' (-0.52° +- 0.75°) front camber.

This is getting old. I said you should try it because I know if you had, you would see the same results. It seems clear to me you have not tried it. I have. I am not talking theoretical outcomes, I am talking actual road proven results of over 100k miles on my Supra and 30k miles on my Scion tC.

It's really great you've been paid to work on cars for the last 20 years. I grew up with circle track racecars. My first trip to the track to see my dad's car race was in 1968. I built my first engine 4 years later, when I was 12. I've been doing this stuff off and on for a long time too.

If this were a discussion about what do you think would happen, I would agree with you. But it isn't. It's a discussion about real world results.

To add to the discussion, the Supra's rear wheel alignment is specified at -1 30’± 45’. Toe is specified at 3 ± 1 mm (0.12 ± 0.04 i n.). I had a serious inside edge wear problem with the car as delivered. I had the alignment checked and very carefully adjusted to the exact factory spec. The problem did not change. I took the car to the guy I now trust exclusively to sort out alignment issues, and I asked him point blank - "How much camber should you take out to fix this?" His answer? "None. You have too much toe in." He set the toe to 1mm. The wear problems ceased. I have since had long discussions with him about this, and his comments to me were the same as what I posted here. Camber is almost never the problem unless it is extreme. Incorrect toe is responsible almost all of the time when there are no worn parts.

I get what you are saying. I know it is wrong.

 

It will stiffen the suspension, increase road noise, and do nothing to change the car's alignment. Double wishbone suspension's alignment is unaffected by the shock's position. They work great on a strut suspension, and I had them on my tC. They will do nothing to change alignment on any SC/IS chassis.

 

I actually try this 3 to 4 times a week, we do alot of car and truck customizing(I don't mean putting fart cans on Hondas either) and these vehicles usually end up getting lifted or lowered and then need the alignments set and the suspension modified alot of times to make things correct. Had I seen the actual before readings on your supra or seen the tire wear I am sure it would have been easy to see where the problem was. With all the specs that you give above I would agree that 1.5 degrees either way would not be a big factor on tire wear, seems as if the car was built to handle that. But honestly if the camber specs on those 2 cars was 0 degrees + - .5 degrees and you set the camber at 1.5 to 2 degrees you will see tire wear due to the fact that the car isn't built to take it(unless you installed a different suspension setup).. And for what it's worth front alignment specs are usually more forgiving than rear for obvious reasons, unless you have 4 wheel steering.

You have your 2 cars to base your opinion on, over the years I have literally thousands to base my opinion on.

 

So you stand by this statement, even after I posted two personally owned examples with well over 100k miles combined? No I didn't say I've only done this to two cars. I said I OWNED these two and have driven them a considerable distance with multiple sets of tires and NOT EVER HAD A PROBLEM.

Then obviously we agree to disagree.

 

I stand by this statement 100 percent but maybe I should also say that the amount of wear depends on how far it is out of spec. I don't consider your Scion to be grossly out of specs and if you maintained your tires the wear was probably very minimal. As far as your Supra goes it seems as if the toe was out in the rear not the camber (you mentioned the toe was changed and not the camber). I'm guessing that on your Supra you misread the tire wear pattern and assumed it was camber related when the toe was the culprit.

 

The original question was whether a Camber kit was needed for a typical drop on a set of Eibach's. Enough people have dropped their 2nd gen IS's to know if tyre wear is an issue or not, but it seems none have posted their experience. Is this because there isn't a wear issue??

My IS has been dropped with the Eibach Pro-set, and I now have just over 1 degree of positive camber on the standard rims. I'm happy with this, but about to fit new 19" rims with different widths and offsets from standard so believe camber adjustment for the front is going to be necessary.
I need 3/4 degree US language, 45' @ 60' to a degree EU or 75' @ 100' again EU. The rear positions are fine...

My only concern is the rotation of the castor since the steering arm is in front of the control arm (on the 1st gen it was behind), and I fear any camber correction will lower the castor position, if it does then a deeper camber would be more desirable than a low castor despite the tyre wear.. Sorry but at the moment i don't have the computer power to calculate the correction parameters....and camber does wear tyres and more so if the toe adjustment is incorrect