al503

My g/f has a TSX. It is a nice ride for the $. Much bigger cabin (especially the back seat) and the trunk is huge compared to the IS. Great gas mileage, at about 32 MPG constant highway at 70 mph. My 350 gets just about 30 MPG for the same. It's also good in terms of reliability. It's got some rattles and she's had issues with the battery/starter.

Refinement is good but of course, not on par with the IS. Seats are comfortable but she says the IS seats are awesome.

If I had to choose it would come down to whether I had to haul a lot of stuff and use the rear seats or not. Since I don't do much of either it would be the 250 for me.

sk72

Yup... HP is not a concern for me or my fiancee.. she prefers a reliable and a comfort ride.. bottom line a car that will suit her in all aspects.. but for some reason she likes the Honda's pick-up more than my ES330.. she drove a friend's Accord once and she liked how the car responded.

sk72

Wow... thanks for the picture Poman...

It is excellent.. and I am sure I will show this to my fiancee... so she can really compare these two from the picture as well...

Thanks...

txstud86

This thread is a joke. Simply because a number of people (most of whom have no experience owning Audi products), the author now writes them off because of these so-called quality problems.

I take it most of you are unaware that the previous generation TL had very serious transmission issues that ended up in a majority of them being recalled. Not to mention the RL has had a ton of recalls as well.

Toyota isn't immune either--look at all of their recalls in the last several months. Curiously however, I don't see many people writing posts about how Toyota/Lexus reliability sucks.

As an A4 owner of two years, my car hasn't been in the shop a single time. It has performed highly and is still in perfect shape. Both of the A4's powerplants--the 2.0t and 3.2 have been named by Ward's 10 Best as best-in-industry engines, available Quattro AWD which trumps the competition, and an interior that is according to industry insiders, best in class.

What gets me about all of this reliability talk is that Audi offers the same comprehensive warranty you'll find in an Acura or Lexus. Furthermore, if you actually took the time to analyze the flawed data proposed by JD Powers, you'd see there's only a 2.5 average problem difference between Lexus and Audi vehicles. Given the fact that the survey fails to define what a problem is, I'd say the differences are trivial.

What is a problem anyway? Too small cupholders? A poorly placed power mirror adjuster? Or is it something mechanical? This survey fails to explain what these problems are.

Bottom line, I think both the TSX and IS are different cars than the A4. The A4 is more sporting the IS, and more luxurious than the TSX. Although the TSX is a good deal, I don't think it is in the same league as the A4 or IS.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yea even despite the tranny problems acura is still way up there, your point?

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...s/2006133a.gif
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2005089a.gif
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2004055b.gif

Youre very fortunate your A4 hasnt given you problems but then again youre a single sample.

I dont know where youre getting this 2.5 difference from. Audis low sales alone are enough to deter me despite the A4 being in similar class and price as the 3/IS/etc

Poman

Sorry man when it comes to interior quality and coolness, European cars just don't cut it for me. I like the "handling" of BMW and Audi but their interior is outdated and just fugly looking. I wanted the BMW or Audi but it's under powered and the interior just not cool in that orangy color (yes I know it's a good color spectrum at high, sorry it looks like my old Mazda's dash). I like electroluminicent color and that's just way neat, nice and bright! When BMW and Audi replace their interior designers and make their dash looks as cool as the Jap's then they got my business! And drop that price! Lexus and Acura are catching up! IMO.

lexuslover

i just got an Audi A4 last month. i was deciding b/w the IS250 manual and the A4 manual. both about $40k loaded w/ everything, except in the Audi that meant the quattro and S-Line pkg as well. so the "value" in MSRP alone went to Audi.

it was my first time defecting from lexus since 1998. i love Lexus, but after posting my question of A4 vs IS250 on this forum, it was clear that the IS250 manual leaves a lot to be desired in most owners' minds. that, coupled with the fact that a loaded IS250 manual w/ goodies is special order, coupled with amazing lease deals and money factors from AUdi, led me to get the A4 on Labor Day.

this is my first manual. i love to drive, and i can say that after initially being partial to the IS (i even put down a deposit for a special order), i drove both, and also the G35, and i could not stop comparing everything to the A4. the feel of the car is just right.

of course being a Lexus loyalist, Audi reliability scared me a little. which is precisely why i'm doing a two year lease which is far cheaper than what i could have gotten on a 3-year lease w/ Lexus, believe it or not. so far the car has been trouble free and very tight - not one squeak or rattle. there is something about german interiors that are really really tight - they don't move at all over bumps. on our Lexuses, this is not the case. they are quiet, but you can tell the cars take a beating over bumps. i don't know what it is - something about the fitment.

in any case, what i'm trying to say is go drive all of them - maybe even ones she is sorta considering but not yet on the "list". i walked into Audi pretty much ready to complain it to pieces, but honestly, after seeing it and driving it, i loved it. if reliability is a top concern and your fiancee actually does plan to keep it beyond warranty, then i agree - stick w/ Japanese for lower maintenance costs in the long run.

and about sales figures, i realized very early on that Audi is never going to be quite like the rest of them. their volume in the U.S. is very low, and it doesn't seem to be the top of their list to become the top German volume player in the market. the total number of Audis sold in the U.S. is less than 1 Lexus model alone. you could argue it's b/c their cars are bad, but i think they are more a niche market player. i actually appreciate that - around So Cal the IS is growing in numbers each day, as is the BMW 3. it's nice to have something a little different every now and then.

good luck w/ the decision

LeslieRC

Please also count me among satisfied A4 owners; I'm certain that there are more than the two of us here who have given positive responses regarding the A4. Frankly, I think I've been more objective regarding the A4 and the IS than most here have. I've owned more Lexus cars than any other brand and I would be among the first to state that Lexus makes excellent cars, but doesn't have sole grasp on quality, performance, and reliability. What's wrong with admitting that Audi has overcome the reliability issues of the past and that Audi cars outperform many other makes? I honestly believe that comparing the A4 with the IS is a fair comparison. Indeed, given the relatively brief pedigree of the IS, I think it is a ture compliment and kudo to Lexus that it has produced a car that can match-up so well in class with brands like Audi and BMW that have much longer pedigrees. Bottom line, I think we can be passionate about our cars while, at the same time, admitting that there's stiff competition out here.

txstud86

I guess since you can't objectively find anything to criticize, you go an attack Audi's US sales numbers. Interesting I suppose how the A4 outsold the year old IS for the month of September.

The 2.5 figure is from the 2006 three year Vehicle Dependability Survey rank of all brands. Lexus had 1.36 problems per vehicle and Audi had 2.9 roughly. This data is flawed because it does not take into account driving habits, annual mileage, or maintenance intervals. Therefore, to rely on this information to claim Lexus reliablity is superior to Audi is foolish.


True, Audi's US volume is half of Acura's (Audi sells 900,000+ cars worldwide), but it's not a fair comparison. More than half of Acura's lineup i has starting prices below $40k. So Acura is selling higher volume lesser priced models. In spite of this, I'm an independant thinker who makes up my own mind and have little interest in following everyone else.

PS - Audi does more volume globally than Acura and Lexus combined.

txstud86

Americans are very influenced by marketing and advertising, and that explains Lexus US success. Audi has historically spent very little on marketing endeavors and thus sales haven't reached full potential.

However, that is about to change, because Audi will launch an all-out assault on the luxury market with a number of new introductions and a class leading marketing campaign to showcase these cars.

In the next 15 months they've got the new TT, A5, Q5, and new A4 with more variants (first time ever coupe, convertible, wagon), in addition to the soon to be released R8 sports car.

So they will gain significant US marketshare.

txstud86

Well that's certainly a valid opinion, but comparison after comparison conclude Audi interior fit, finish, and material quality are superior to anything in class.

The IS looks good at face value, but when you start feeling the materials and looking in places you don't normally see, the Audi has it beat.

Bichon

Our Audis (S4 and A4) were perfect at two years old also, txstud86. At the time the warranty expired, the only problem I'd had on my S4 was a leaky fuel sender gasket and a bad speaker, both replaced under warranty. It wasn't until about year five that I learned about why Audi has the reputation it does.

Go to Audiworld, and take a look at the B5 A4 and S4 forums. Do a search for "control arm", "tie rod end", "wheel bearing" and "window regulator". You'll find many, many people having these issues on cars with under 100,000 miles. Do the same searches on the Lexus forums, and you just don't see these sorts of problems on cars of that age. In my case, it didn't help that matters that the service department at our local Audi dealer is both expensive and atrocious.

I'm not anti Audi. The S4 was a wonderful car that I really enjoyed owning. I have to say that I enjoyed driving it more than I enjoy driving my IS350. If repair and maintenance costs weren't bleeding me dry, I'd probably still have it. But give credit where it is due: the Japanese know how to build a durable car.

Threxx

As for JD Power's surveys... I've taken them for various things including cars (I'm on the power panel). The definition of a 'problem' is pretty solid overall. This most recent year they got a bit broader in their scope of quality, but IMO they got even more accurate with it... at least no worse.

2.5 more problems per vehicle? That's pretty huge when you saying it another way - the average lexus is experiencing ~1 problem... so 3.5 problems is 3 and a half times as many problems in the first 90 days, and the first 3 years of ownership reflects a similar experience. Lets not forget when cars really start having problems... after the 100k mile mark or so. Audis are VERY expensive to own at that point. Consider yourself lucky or just easily impressed and ignorant of existing issues, if you drive one without paying out the *** to keep it running right.

As far as the A4 goes...
I enjoy driving my 06 A4. It does feel nice and 'solid' over bumps but still makes lots and lots of funny noises and random rattles regardless. At 5000 miles this thing had more rattles and noises than I could begin naming off... compared to the 80k mile GS400 I had where it had a few but I could name the few that were there.

It's a very fun car to drive but I've already had several minor quality issues with it, and strange noises/things happening before 15k miles that would make me scared to continue outside of warranty. Good thing it's a lease.

SugarRush

^ I can testify to all the problem that Bichon typed up there.
I owned 1998 2.8 A4. While nothing was kaputt (German for 'break down') , it was a nice car.
But I got ALL the problem that Bichon mentioned plus a couple more:
- AC evaporator leak, $1,200 to fix.
- LED backlights of the cd player + climate control were gone, one segment at a time...$xxx to fix/replace
- Rear brake light always went out alternately: replaced left, right went out; replaced right, left wentout..cycle repeated every couple months.
- CV joint replaced both side (because the CV boots got torn and the dirt get into the mechanism).

Sold the Audi 4+ yrs ago to a fellow for a very cheap price.
I just dont trust it enough to drive anywhere far and to be left stranded. Sad eh?

"My first Audi, and IT WILL BE MY LAST!!"

Bichon

My sister had that problem on her A4 too.
I had a similar problem with the small LCD trip computer display between the tach and speedo on my S4. Different rows of dots would dim and disappear, seemed somewhat temperature related. Never had that one fixed.

I also had to replace the throttle body hose on my S4 multiple times due to tears. It's a known weakness on the S4 turbo, and several aftermarket companies sell re-engineered replacements that are designed to last.

My sister also had the ABS controller on her A4 go, as well as some issue with the air injection (emission control device) that made the car sound like a jet for the first couple minutes after it was started.

Neither of us was ever stranded by the car. But both of us got tired of saying "we'll just do this $1200 repair and it should go another year", only to face another expensive repair a month or two down the road.