al503

I didn't want to hijack the other current BBK thread so...

First of all, I'm not trying to single the above member out but this is pretty much the argument against the BBK.

Couldn't you say this about pretty much any mod that's discussed in this forum?

"You're not going to need them..."

How many people need new wheels? What's wrong with the stockers?

"They're too expensive."

Some people are spending big bucks on mods. Yet, I don't hear any negativity regarding those $5K+ HRE's.

"The brakes won't work well because...."

Where is the concern when people are putting lowering springs (issues with camber, suspension geometry, limited adjustability) on their IS? Where is the concern when people are putting springs manufactured for another model (like the GS) on the IS?

I could keep going but I guess I'm trying to understand the source of what I perceive to be a double standard. Apparently, no one has any heartburn over 30+ lb 20" wheels with tires that are 5+% larger in diameter than stock that we know will adversely impact performance, mpg, and perhaps safety with longer braking distances. However, if someone even mentions BBK, its not the usual, 'where did you get it?' 'how much was it?' etc. Instead, I can almost hear the bell that will trigger the almost Pavlovian-like negative responses.

15951

Actually, I think everything you mention there is pretty much a waste of money, but if you really want a BBK, go for it. Nobody here is freezing your bank accounts or anything. I think it's bizarre to expect a positive response to all mods, particularly those that are purely cosmetic...and don't kid yourself, a BBK on an IS350 is cosmetic only. People post asking for opinions, and when they don't get the desired response, they become upset. The answer is to do what you want, post pictures, and be prepared for free speech.

Hutch27

I don't see how this thread will be a useful discussion for the CL members.

TheNewGuy

Al I agree with you, I to have noticed that BBK discussions are about 90% negitive, even when the original poster says in their first post that they are doing it strictly for looks, I don't get it. Is it cause some people can spend money on trivial things like BBK's while others can't. Now if the guy wants to debadge his car and put on Corolla emblems then by all means laugh and point fingers

kilo6_one

iTrader: (2)

i think its all about bling, i tell my wife there is no difference in the rims i put on my cars then the diamonds on her fingers (generally speaking), nither is nessacary but since rims and moddifications have become such a mainstream way of expressing yourself and the size of your wallet. How many people need a subzero fridge in there home? i think you get my point.......
I agree, alot of mods come down to "why did you do it?" "because i can", its as simple as that.......

9520G

Who cares, If you want to do something to your car just do it. It's not like the person complaining is paying for it, you have to learn to ignore people like that. It is your money and you can do whatever you please.

NovaIS350

God bless america

jsquared

like someone said, people are asking for opinions. it's just that people have a hard time understanding how someone can spend that much money on something that is supposed to give better performance but instead is just a bling mod. heck, if i had the money and i thought it looked nice on my car, i'd get it regardless of what everyone else says. i would be one of those to ask what people thought, etc. but ultimately i'm the one making the decision.

Evitzee

I find the whole mod issue odd. First, I'm sure many of these same heavy modifiers fought and fought with the dealer to get the absolute lowest price on the car, playing one dealer off the other and fighting for the last hundred dollars or so. Then they turn around and start larding on the very expensive wheels and brakes with nary a thought as to whether it makes sense economically or performance wise.

Nothing wrong with all of this but seems counterproductive in the extreme. To each their own.

jsquared

haha that's because you can negotiate with the dealers and not the aftermarket product makers.

kilo6_one

iTrader: (2)

You sound like my father, very thought out......... in a good way. I totally agree with what you said, but i think its part of our culture to moddify ones possessions. People do it with there homes, swimming pools; whatever they can get there hands on.

t.is350.h

iTrader: (3)

I have nothing against bbk or any other mod, it's just my suggestion. I agree with jsquared up there, if you have money and want the bling then just go for it. As I was mention up there, if you want the look go for it. Looking for performance, don't. If you look for performace, you should upgrade front and rear kits. However, when people ask for rims, other will know right away that the guy wants the look. No question ask....Who would buy bigger wheels for performance?
Again...I have nothing against what you said up there. That's just what I think when the bbk pop up.

al503

I was planning on getting one but my other hobby expenses are going through the roof so it's on hold at the moment.
Just trying to figure out the rationale, if there is one, to those that get positive responses, and those that don't.

I used track my car before I got tangled up in my new hobby (shooting IPSC/USPSA matches.) I had a G35 coupe with the brembo brakes. When I was a novice, the stock brakes were adequate. After a little more experience, I upgraded the pads, fluid, and installed stainless steel brake lines. That actually made a very big difference and it took me a while before I started to get fade with that set-up. When you're running 115+ mph on the front straight and have to slow down to about 30-35 mph for the first turn, and your brake pedal starts to go all the way to the floor and you're not slowing down... Luckily, there was no else too close and there is a runoff area. My heart skipped a few beats though. After that, I upgraded to and Endless BBK. No issues with fade so that helped with my enjoyment of tracking the car immensely by allowing me push the car harder and deeper.

I appreciate your post.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'm against all that stuff.

Seriously though, I think there are two major camps - the visual performance types and the mechanical performance types. Big brakes are bling on a street vehicle, so the bling/visual performance crowd usually gets excited about BBKs. The mechanical performance crowd doesn't see the advantage for street use, and isn't keen on changing one of the more complex systems on the car. They're also not keen on the big prices for replacement parts on a BBK. You can replace both rotors and pads on the front axle for <$350 in parts. That's pretty cheap for something that wears out routinely by design.

The visual performance crowd loves 19 & 20" wheels. They don't care about weight, suspension compliance, tire cost or wheel cost. They have a look they want to achieve. The mechanical performance crowd says there's a lot of good performance rubber available in a 17", why couldn't I have those lighter, better complying, better riding and stopping tires and wheels instead?

The visual performance crowd is concerned about "wheel gap." Again, they aim to achieve a certain look, and that look precludes any concerns about roll center, roll couple, transient response, or even clearing ordinary obstacles. The mechanical performance crowd says, I want the car to be responsive, ride with all four tires in constant contact with the road and the car's weight as evenly distributed as possible over the four wheels at all times regardless of ride height or fashion. The mechanical performance crowd recognises it is very difficult to substantially change factory ride height and achieve those goals.

From my observations, the import world has a much larger population of visual performance afficionados that it does mechanical performance types. I'm a mechanical guy, so, it's not fair to say "no one." It is odd though that this site has so many who are visual performance oriented making so many negative comments about BBKs. I still say if you want a working BBK, ditch all that electronic aid stuff first, get the right size master cylinder, and make the brakes deliver the promise. JMHO.

al503

Very funny post, bux. I appreciate it.

My question exactly.

The stock brakes with EBFD on the G were phenominal. I could count the number of cars that beat it's braking distances on a couple of fingers including the supercars like the vette, lambos, porches, ferraris, etc.. I remember the driving master at an HPDE ask me if I had the stock brakes on. When I told him yes, he just shook his head.

Before I changed the brakes, I went to a deserted back road with a bud that had the same G. We measured our stopping distances so I would have a baseline and we could measure his car again for comparison after I put the kit on.

I put the kit on myself *polishing my fingernails against my shirt* and bedded them in properly. A couple weeks later, the braking distances of both cars were a little longer (it was colder out) but it was directly proportional to the previous testing.

I didn't get better braking distances but I wasn't expecting that. What I did get was additional heat capacity for the track (and all the from other drivers.)