pelucidor

I test drove a BMW 335i sedan with Steptronic auto last week - about a 20 minute test drive where I was allowed to get quite aggressive. I hate the Active Steering and luckily the car I drove did not have it.

I have driven a 330i Sport many times in the past including at Taste of Lexus. The new 335i sedan even with auto is absurdly quick compared to a 330i or an IS350. I was shocked and even giggled a few times. From 50-80mph in the blink of an eye - I kept doing this over and over. Extremely good steering feel and nice handling - took some curves at 60-80 very easily. No doubt about it this is a monster of a driver's car.

I priced out the exact car I wanted (metallic paint, Premium package, Cold Weather Package, NAV etc) at $48k which sounds high but BMW have extremely cheap lease deals (e.g. Money Factor of 0.0015, dropping to 0.0010 with multiple security deposits, and high residuals such as 61% after 3 years/45k miles) - I could lease the $48k car for about $620 per month with zero down on 36 months/45k miles even before haggling (salesman offered $1000 off MSRP immediately).


But... I hate the styling inside and out. The new coupe has much nicer headlights and tailights and if the sedan had the same changes I might have been tempted. Of course the interior is awful, flat and bland and the leather feels like cardboard - I used to have an E36 3-series and much preferred that interior from 10 years back. Overall the 335i reminded me of EVOs I have driven - crazy fast but very one-dimensional (i.e. didn't enjoy the car except when I was driving like a maniac).


The next day I retested the IS350 for the third time. I just loved walking around the car, just sitting in it and marveling at the little design touches and materials. Driving the car was not as exciting or as quick as the 335i but much better for the 98% of the time when I am not being a maniac. The steering feel is more numb, the handling a little less precise, the environment a little quieter (but the BMW was surprisingly quiet too). Overall a more balanced vehicle for my needs. The car as I wanted it was $44k - a little cheaper than the BMW 335i but with more equipment that I wanted and palpably more quality (the BMW is very well assembled but the materials didn't give me the luxury feel I wanted). After haggling on the IS350 (got $4754 off MSRP and a Money Factor of 0.00165 with 9 refundable security deposits) I got to $525 per month (inc 9% tax) on a 3year/45k miles lease with nothing down, so about $100 per month less than the BMW 335i sedan.

I ended up getting the IS350 and I love every moment of 300 miles I have driven so far since Dec 1. But I think 10 years ago I would have got the BMW (or the EVO)...

TorontoIS

pelucidor, after test driving both cars, in my case the 335 coupe, I came to the same conclusions and went with the IS 350. I have not had second thoughts at all.

pelucidor

Same here - no second thoughts or 'buyers remorse' after getting the IS350.

But for those that are thinking about the BMW - it is a great car in almost every way. I went in not liking what Bangle/van Hooydonk has done to any current BMWs (especially interiors) so I was biased against the 335i up front, but if someone likes the styling then you owe it to yourself to test drive the BMW vs the IS (and probably the G35 and other competitors).

I was also slightly concerned about reliability for the new twin-turbo engine in it's first year (very impressive 300lb ft torque from 1500-5000rpm!) but BMW is a good company and I am sure they will make things right if necessary.

IS350jet

9 refundable security deposits? WTF?

pelucidor

Some manufacturers (e.g. BMW and Lexus) allow people to put down a lot of REFUNDABLE money (security deposits) which lowers the Money Factor (MF) on a lease.

The initial MF for December on the IS350 was 0.00255 (about 6.12% APR) and for every security deposit of $525 I put down it reduced by 0.0001 (about 0.24%). Lexus allows a maximum of 9 security deposits, so by putting down a REFUNDABLE $4725 I got an MF of 0.00165 (3.96%).

This in turn translates to about an $58 per month saving which means I am paying $2088 less over the 3 year lease. I work for a financial investments software company and investing $4725 to get a return of $2088 (i.e. making 44.2% over 3years, which is about 13% return per year) with NO RISK of losing your initial investment is a damn good deal.


Hope this explains things - and kudos to my salesguy at Lexus who first educated me on this option a few weeks ago.

sdbrandon

Premium cars like BMW and MB play games with numbers. Rather than annouce rebates or discounts on some TV commerical, the pass through money to BMWFS. So when you lease a BMW through BMWFS, the residuals are artificially high. At lease end, you turn the car in. With the deal most folks get, BMWFS would eb taking a loss. That is where BMWNA comes in. They pay BMWFS on the backend to make the numbers work out.

About 30% of BMW consumers lease. Over on bimmerfest it seems like a lot are young kids and there seems to be somewhat of a leasing frenzy with these kids flipping theirs cars every two years with no savings or home to speak of.

Leasing is a great tool, but like credit cards, they can be your demise if you do not know what you are doing.

Tony1

I've heard that if you choose the European delivery you can
also save 7% on top of the money you haggle off of the MSRP while at
the dealership, is this true??

sdbrandon

yes, you can get the cars slightly over invoice, with ED and free maintenance, you can get a loaded 3 for less than a loaded IS. The loaded 335 sedan prices out at about $50k. Out the door folks can get about $43k with ED plus free maintenance for four years.

When you factor in the attractive lease rates, it is amazing. There are folks getting the 5 series for under $500 per month.

However, I would still get a Lexus at this point.

starstreak

from the bmw forums, I heard no. They kill off about $3k off the retail price. since you take delievery theres not much haggling the dealership should be doing to you.

NovaIS350

same here I test drove the 335i coupe..no second thoughts about it..the IS is a well rounded car. It has everything you need/want from a sports sedan...minus the 4 wheel drive (attessa et-s) & manny tranny*


*no pun intended.

Crazy Yoda

I do not like BMW cars. The interiors are inferior to any Lexus car in my opinion. They are bland and you have to pay through the nose to get a "premium" leather interior. Plus you have the mighty I-Drive system to contend with. I went and looked at the 330i (335i was not out) when I was car shoping. I never took it for a test drive due to the interior issues I have stated.

If I were to do things right now rather than before I would drive the 335i just to see how good the performance of the car is compared to the IS350. But I would also drive the new G35 as well. I drove the old one and did not like the car also due to interior issues.

I think that the BMW 50k mile warranty is not a reason to look at the car. You do not have to pay for any service for that period of time, unlike the Lexus, but overall it does not really save you much money when you factor in the price difference for an apples to apples car.

BTW my boss has his 750 BMW in the shop for a computer problem for the third time. He got his BMW at the same time that I got my IS350. All I have had done is an oil change. Enough said on the "quality" issue as far as I am concerned.

Buds

Yeah the BMW dealer here told me that 70% of their BMW's are leased!

I don't think I could ever lease a car, I like to keep my cars 5-7 years.

sdbrandon

I think the dealer lied. I read a financial article a while back that stated a manufacturer/dealer could not lease more than 30% of the cars. That is like the max. Most lease 10-20%.

What happens, if you lease too many cars, the used car market gets saturated and resale values plummet further. If everybody leased, there would be no used car market. So you can see if the dealer leased 70% of the cars, that is a lot of used cars to move.

I think what the dealer was saying is this. "We try to get many customers to lease, because leases are confusing to many and we can make more money with hidden fees. All the customer cares about is a lower payment. Also by pushing a lease, we can get an expensive car into the hands of someone who really cannot afford it."

I do not lease either. Nothing wrong with leasing, it is just that flipping a car every two years is a bit much. Plus I like to customize my cars somewhat.

Technique

I spent an entire day in a 335i this past weekend. The car handles better than the IS350 if you take hard corners and twisty roads... Noticeably better... But the biggest difference I noticed was the noise... The IS350 is MUCH MUCH quieter than the BMW... Honestly, the 335 was the same noise level as the E46 M3... Damn, I mean, the 335 is not a sports sedan, it's basically a sports car... not much "sedan" to it...

So I'd say:

BMW - Get the M3 if you want best handling and don't care about noise or interior comfort

Lexus - Get the IS350 if you want good handling and power and also a smooth and quiet ride

Don't get the 335i, no point, get the M3 instead... Why get a 335 when it's as rough/noisy as the M3 but less power? Doesn't make sense to me... Unless you can't afford it, but the M3 is usually only $10k more... and I don't think that's a big deal when you are buying a car around $40-50k for most people...

sdbrandon

Funny. I used to own an M3. Never gain. Fun at first, than annoying after a few months. The run flats on the new bimmers suck too. I think a big turn off for me is the runflats, lack of a spare/jack, and no oil dipstick.:

My 6 series has runflats. My engine has a dipstick. I cannot imagine buying a car without a dipstick. Numerous complaints on the BMW baords about the oil sensors failing an no one knows how much oil is in the car.