There you go! Someone that speaks some sense.

 

Based on the numbers (data) available today the 335i makes approx 275 RWHP and the IS is somewhere around 265 RWHP (Different day/conditions). Which puts the 335i somewhere in the 320 hp range. I find it funny that there have not been any head to head comparisons between the new G35, 335i and the IS. I think we will see the top three in a very close test/race. Depending on the differences (which I think will be minuet) I would much rather have a naturally aspirated engine over the complexity of a intercooled twin turbo. This set-up could end up a big can of worms for BMW!

Koz

 

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you were attacking me. I'm pretty sure that's not allowed, per the TOU. You, of all people, should know that.

Now, if you take a look at what I've posted here, it matches what a lot of other informed people have said. If you consider that "no point" and "borderline troll", then I'm thinking you have no business being a moderator. And you've obviously not read my other 400 posts.

 

Um, I saw commercial for 335i today, and that back end looks really weak. IS350 does look substantially better than 335i, or any 3 series version.

 

so, even with turbo's, BMW's gain on IS350 is minimal.

Now, who in the world will tune their BMW when you lose your warranty? A lot of people say free maintainance and warranty is bonus for BMW, and that they will get rid of it later - but you get to pick one - warranty or tuner.

I think it is pretty weak that BMW had to result to twin turbo's to match performance of GR series engine. Lets not remember BMW ads of 2-3 yrs ago that ridiculed turbo cars, and companies having to turn to turbos.

 

To be honest, in SCCA the 3 series is a mere D stock class competitor...for all the handling that people claim the 3 series does, its really not some beast in the department, and lacked everything in the power department before this turbo version. The new IS is foremost a luxury car, different than the 1st gen. in most every way, and its meant to behave on the street first, while doing anything else secondary, including performance, hence why the 250 has greater sales expectations. I wouldn't even call the 3 series a true luxury vehicle by comparison, as its always walked a line that held more of a bias towards performance, very distinct from that which Lexus has and always will offer. If one complains about handling, feel, and performance driving dynamic, then buy the car designed around those principles...but don't expect it from Lexus, in a fashion similar to why you wouldn't expect a Rolls Royce to suddenly start carving corners with the feel of a Lotus. Lexus builds cars to spoil the consumer with quality, comfort, features, and isolation from the environment which makes up daily driving, at a price which undercuts its competition...as such, judge it by that criteria, and you'll see why it meets the sale success it has within the relatively short amount of time the brand has existed.

Does the IS compete with the 3-series? Indeed it does, but for a different type of consumer, that does not want a BMW clone or BMW price. The sales of the 1st gen. IS not only highlighted this point, but it's also reinforced by Toyota's changes/philosophy for the second gen...some people want a passive driving experience, while others prefer a more active one. Neither preference/idea has failed BMW or Lexus yet.

 

With the 3.2 liter //M3 engine at 333hp 6 years ago this statement is clearly not true. For some reason they decided to go with turbos. It could have been they wanted to increase the the torque without increasing the displacement. Way back in this thread it was pointed out that BMW had a 3.6 with 310hp in 1990 in the E34 M5 and 340hp from a 3.8 in 1992. So, yes they can do whatever they want but there are trade offs (weight, efficiency, emissions, etc.). I am guessing but I think they may have wanted to retain the straight six and aluminum block and to go to a bigger displacement I6 would necessitate an iron block or some other modifications to stiffen the block. Or, management may have said they didn't want to have a completely new engine design. Who knows? However, I would know the facts before claiming BMW couldn't match the IS350 without turbos.

 

BMW got caught with their pants down. They just redesigned the 3 series 3.0 and didn't foresee Lexus coming out with a state of the art engine design, making big HP. It's just like what is going to happen to the big three when the new half ton Tundra with the new 5.7 - 400 HP V8 hits the market for 07. BMW got in the comfort zone with very good handling average HP vehicles. They got caught up in the same comfort zone that the domestic car manufactures were in when they thought brand loyalty will sell their cars. I see the twin turbo as a panic move to show how innovative they are. I'll bet the head of their engineering department **** his pants when he saw the IS one full second faster to 60 mph!

Koz

 

State of the art engine design? WTF are you talking about? Where do you guys come up with this crap? What does the Toyota 3.5 have that Honda didn't already have back in 1988?

And shoot, I'll bet Lotus engineers crapped their pants when they saw that the Elise didn't make as much HP as the new IS.

 

Lexus IS350: 60% performance + 40% luxury/comfort
BMW 335: 70% performance + 30% luxury/comfort

Pick the mix that best fits your lifestyle.

 

Or, they are confident enough in the strength of the brand to know they don't need to spend that kind of money (a new engine) to retain or gain market share. I don't doubt that both of these companies that build F1 engines are capable of building engines with whatever output they want. The market, finances and economies of scale determine what they build. For all we know, BMW is using the twin turbos as temporary solution until they actually come out with a bigger na engine. Who knows? However, what Lexus did with a 300hp 3.5 is NOT a big deal and some kind of technological break through especially given the bucks that Toyota has. BMW's biggest seller by a WIDE margin has always been the 325i.

 

Maybe you should read this before continuing to make uneducated statements. I wouldn't call an engine employing over 300 still enforceable patents yesterday's news. And no, no other manufacturer has produced a DI/PI system. Not one.

 

Actually, I think the DI etc. in newer cars is pretty cool as it allows such high compression and clean burning cars. However, here is my 16 year old engine vs. the IS350

Dis. Bore x Stroke Compr Output Tq

BMW B36S38: 3.535 93.4 x 86 10:1 311@6900 265@4750

IS350 3.456 94 x 83 11.8:1 306@6400 277@4800

Actually, looking at those numbers someone needs to develop some software for the IS. The M5 goes to 7250rpm with a vengance. With a little higher rev limit you may be able to see some gains up top. Of course, I would wait until after the warranty expires. "Chips" on my car add about 20-25 hp.

So the trick is really not making power -- they could always do that. It is making power and complying with newer regulations.

 

+ decent gas mileage. IIRC, those M5's sucked down the premium with the best exotics.

 

Before you get all excited about those patents, remember that you can patent pretty much anything, no matter how silly, and you don't even have the be the first person to invent what you're patenting. You just have to be the first to patent it.

A list of patents doesn't tell me anything about how "state of the art" an engine is.