StarfireIS

I changed the oil and filter in my wife's IS350 about 2 weeks ago. The car was 3 months old and had 1900 miles on it. I inspected the filter after the oil change and did find some minor shavings in the folds of the filter, but not much. It was likely trapped by the filter in the first 20 miles of driving or so and thus caused no damage.

For me, I always like to change the oil within the first 2000 miles on a new car for piece of mind. I figure $30 on oil and filter is cheap by piece of mind standards...

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Not really. It's like saying the oil will continue to do the job it was hired to do regardless of color. Color is not a significant attribute for determining an oil's ability to perform. Neither is its ability to wick into a paper towel. The only way to measure the oil's ability to continue in service is mass spectrometry and measuring TBN. That's how you know if its contaminated or has lost its viscosity. If you are not going to scientifically measure the oil's attributes, you might as well follow any arbitrary change schedule that makes you feel good.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Only if the car isn't moving. As soon as it moves and inertia takes over, that extra quart of oil turns into mousse. When the mousse sitting on top of your oil gets into the rod bearings, you lose a lot really fast. Not to mention the fluid drag on the crank from smacking the surface. Keep in mind, the crank gains considerable diameter and mass from the oil leaving the bearings and clinging to the crank webs. This oil still causes a whipping action. Ever see scrapers installed in crankcase to remove oil clinging to the crank webs? I have.

Personally, I rather run a quart low than quart over. I know for a fact a lot of engines dyno better a quart low than they do full too.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Sort of. I've been changing filters at the manufacturer's recommended interval for the last 17 years I've been running synthetics. Spin-ons don't lose any more oil than the cartridge style in the 2GR-FSE, and the 2GR loses ~400cc of oil on a filter change (yes, I measured it by putting it back into an empty quart bottle.)

One other "issue" I haven't seen anyone mention - oil doesn't go through the filter first on any engine. It goes through a superfine stainless steel mesh screen at the end of the pickup tube, then straight to the oil pump, THEN to the filter. So if there are indeed visible particles in the filter, they were present in the engine between the pickup screen and the oil filter before first start.

I would be very surprised to find any visible metal particles in an oil filter from Toyota. It would indicate to me the engine was not assembled in a clean environment, and that's completely contrary to my experience with Toyota's factory engine building. The only Japanese engines I've seen come from the factory with some kind of crap in them are Kawasaki motorcycles.

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you about running the oil level so high that the moving parts in the bottom end are splashing, but most cars I've had came with conservatively marked dip sticks. Many S2000 owners run an extra quart above the "High" mark when they do track events without whipping the oil. I've also heard that running less oil on the dyno can increase the results, but I imagine that is because the oil will run hotter (thinner).

On top of that, my S2000 did come from the factory overfilled. I believe that this was due to the well documented issue of rapid oil consumption in the F20C during break-in. Many S2000s consumed a quart per 1K miles during break-in.

Irishman06

Its not that the particles start off in the engine, but that modern engines (to my knowledge) have their cylinder bores under-machined a minute amount (on the order of 0.001-0.005 mm, since we're talking Toyota), to get a better seal from the piston rings, preventing blow-by.

Also, I've seen some of the engine assembly plants here in NA, and, well, they're not clean rooms like any paint area is. They're no cleaner than their full car assembly brethren. Japan is cleaner than us (5S is a religion over there), but there's no extra standards at a powertrain assembly facility.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I used to use a class 1000 cleanroom. Not perfect, but pretty good. Never had dirt issues. All parts were cleaned outside the assembly area and washed with hot soapy water before assembly (except certain coated parts that didn't like water.) A paint booth needs to be class 100 or better if you want a decent finish.

Irishman06

OK, powertrain assembly plants (Toyota ones, at least) are not even considered "cleanrooms" by any definition of the word, other than there's less dirt everywhere than you'd expect in a production facility housing 5000+ people.

Technique

When is this going to occur? I'm curious to see the results...

I'll be doing my first oil change in about 9-10 months... When my car is 1 year old or I hit 10k to 15k miles... I promised someone I'd send it in for analysis so I'll be curious to see the difference with my factory oil at 10-15k vs your non-factory oil at the same mileage...

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I hope you're not being serious. I think it would be crazy to run the factory fill oil for more than 5K. I did a Blackstone Labs UOA and TBN on my break-in oil at 5K, and it was just "Okay".

Technique

Dead serious... We'll see what happens...

Big Andy

Every Lexus sold in the UK and Europe runs to 10k on the factory oil before the first service. Subsequent oil changes are also every 10k. I wouldn't buy a car that had 5k service intervals - you'd never be out of the dealership. Incidentally, most BMWs and Audis run to between 15k and 20k before their first service.

Incidentally, there's no such thing as "break-in" oil - the factory uses bog standard stuff, the same as you or I would buy off the shelf.

Technique

10,000 km or 10,000 miles?

Ya, my BMW M3 the light for oil would come on around every 15,000 to 16,000 miles... BMW's engine management system calculates oil changes based on gallons of gasoline burned... So highway miles will mean you go longer between oil changes (upwards of 20,000 miles between oil changes)...

Koz

It is true, break-in oil is just conventional oil. That's why I would not trust the additive package or the TBN to last 10/12K miles, essentially in a new engine, without an UOA. I suggest you at least change the filter half way through. It would rejuvenate the TBN/add package. Lexus feels that the engine is broken-in by 5K miles. I will change the filter at 2500 miles (to remove some debris) and change to full synthetic at 5K. I know there will still be a lot of ware debris still in the oil system but it will be safe to extend the OCI (with UOAs).

Koz

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

There abosolutely is "break-in oil" for EVERY engine. The oil itself may or may not be anything different from regular oil, but every engine gets broken in with oil in it, right? Hence ... "break-in oil" = whatever oil the engine was broken in with.