MY 350 is getting slower now :(
04-07-07, 03:19 PM
#31
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I'm with gern on this one also. It probably took at least 4-5K miles on the odo before my rears started breaking loose while in first gear. It never did that before.
With that said, after the initial break-in when the engine does get a little stronger, you will start to lose power as the engine wears. This shouldn't really happen until you get up there in miles (20-40K depending on the engine and maintenance.) The only engine that doesn't follow this is the Wankel powered Mazdas, which continue to get stronger as you rack up the miles.
With that said, after the initial break-in when the engine does get a little stronger, you will start to lose power as the engine wears. This shouldn't really happen until you get up there in miles (20-40K depending on the engine and maintenance.) The only engine that doesn't follow this is the Wankel powered Mazdas, which continue to get stronger as you rack up the miles.
04-07-07, 04:08 PM
#32
Not a chance. It's running exactly where Toyota expects it to run. No way is it running lean. That's what the WB O2 sensor in the header does - set the A/F ratio to the expected values.
Resetting the ECM will only change the A/F to the initial factory settings for a very short while.
The learning mode for the transmission will not affect WOT runs, only part throttle shift points based on your driving habits. Besides, the transmission shift points will only affect ET, not trap speed. Trap speed is your best indicator for horsepower. You can change gearing all you want and change your ET, but your trap speed will be pretty constant regardless of your gearing. Low traps mean low power. High traps mean high power. It's the easiest way to compare two "identical" stock cars. The one with the higher trap speed has the better engine. Period, end of story, no real driver skill required.
Resetting the ECM will only change the A/F to the initial factory settings for a very short while.
The learning mode for the transmission will not affect WOT runs, only part throttle shift points based on your driving habits. Besides, the transmission shift points will only affect ET, not trap speed. Trap speed is your best indicator for horsepower. You can change gearing all you want and change your ET, but your trap speed will be pretty constant regardless of your gearing. Low traps mean low power. High traps mean high power. It's the easiest way to compare two "identical" stock cars. The one with the higher trap speed has the better engine. Period, end of story, no real driver skill required.
On another note, I just compared my 6 timeslips from my last trip to Ennis. I had 4 runs ranging from 13.09-13.21 and 2 runs that were in the 14+ range due to tire spin. Throwing out the 2 bad runs, my times varied by slightly less than 1%. For those same 4 runs, my trap speeds ranged from 104.37-105.43, which is slightly more than a 1% variance. Is this a weird outcome? All of the runs were within about an hour.
04-07-07, 04:19 PM
#33
Tech Info Resource
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What were your trap speeds on all four runs? Within ~1%? You threw out the two bad E.T.s because you spun, but weren't your trap speeds on those runs pretty close to the good ones? That's what I've observed time and time again. E.T. is all about your ability to drive. Trap speed is all about your engine's ability to do work.
Have you ever seen a car run 10's at less than 120 mph? I have. Much less. Why so quick and yet so slow? Gearing. Sure there are extreme combinations where you set yourself up for failure, but by and large, if you are anywhere in the ballpark, your mph will be the same without regard for gearing. Your E.T. will vary a LOT, but you cross the finish line at the same speed.
For example - last Wednesday when I ran at Sac Raceway, my best 60' was 2.28 and my worst was 2.98. Best E.T. 9.02. Worst E.T. 10.04. Trap speed? All runs were 81.xx mph. Every single one. Damn those are depressing numbers...
Have you ever seen a car run 10's at less than 120 mph? I have. Much less. Why so quick and yet so slow? Gearing. Sure there are extreme combinations where you set yourself up for failure, but by and large, if you are anywhere in the ballpark, your mph will be the same without regard for gearing. Your E.T. will vary a LOT, but you cross the finish line at the same speed.
For example - last Wednesday when I ran at Sac Raceway, my best 60' was 2.28 and my worst was 2.98. Best E.T. 9.02. Worst E.T. 10.04. Trap speed? All runs were 81.xx mph. Every single one. Damn those are depressing numbers...
Last edited by lobuxracer; 04-07-07 at 04:22 PM.
04-07-07, 04:41 PM
#35
Here are all 6 of my runs
13.094 @ 105.43
13.161 @ 105.27
13.187 @ 104.37
13.212 @ 104.52
14.139 @ 104.37
14.520 @ 103.96
Obviously, if you spin like your on ice, then let off the gas until it grips, then floor it again, your times are going to be MUCH worse than the trap speeds. Thats because the clock's running while the car is almost sitting still. You might as well just drive forward 1" to trigger the timer, wait a second, then hit the gas. However, if you throw out the runs with wheel spin, it seems obvious to me that times are more consistent than traps regarding power (on our cars anyway).
Surely you would agree that if you had 2 cars that were identical in every way except that one had a regular automatic, and the other had a CVT with an ECU that would maintain a gear ratio that would keep the engine at peak torque throughout the whole 1/4 mile ... the CVT would have a MUCH higher trap speed and certainly a quicker time.
13.094 @ 105.43
13.161 @ 105.27
13.187 @ 104.37
13.212 @ 104.52
14.139 @ 104.37
14.520 @ 103.96
Obviously, if you spin like your on ice, then let off the gas until it grips, then floor it again, your times are going to be MUCH worse than the trap speeds. Thats because the clock's running while the car is almost sitting still. You might as well just drive forward 1" to trigger the timer, wait a second, then hit the gas. However, if you throw out the runs with wheel spin, it seems obvious to me that times are more consistent than traps regarding power (on our cars anyway).
Surely you would agree that if you had 2 cars that were identical in every way except that one had a regular automatic, and the other had a CVT with an ECU that would maintain a gear ratio that would keep the engine at peak torque throughout the whole 1/4 mile ... the CVT would have a MUCH higher trap speed and certainly a quicker time.
04-07-07, 04:55 PM
#36
Comb,
What type of air filter do you have? One thing I like about my HKS drop-in filter is that I can toss it in the cloths washing machine whenever I want. I haven't done it yet, but I certainly will before going back to the track. I realize that my oil will be contaminated a little quicker, but who cares...
What type of air filter do you have? One thing I like about my HKS drop-in filter is that I can toss it in the cloths washing machine whenever I want. I haven't done it yet, but I certainly will before going back to the track. I realize that my oil will be contaminated a little quicker, but who cares...
04-07-07, 04:56 PM
#37
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2 months ago it was colder, that explains everything. The wheather has ALOT to do with it. True, not as much as if you were turbo'd but it still does affect it.
Case in point- My friends '00 Mustang GT ran 14.5s all day durring last summer, this past winter he was running 14.1s all day, no difference except the wheather. Now hes has mods and runs 13s all day.
Case in point- My friends '00 Mustang GT ran 14.5s all day durring last summer, this past winter he was running 14.1s all day, no difference except the wheather. Now hes has mods and runs 13s all day.
04-07-07, 05:19 PM
#38
2 months ago it was colder, that explains everything. The wheather has ALOT to do with it. True, not as much as if you were turbo'd but it still does affect it.
Case in point- My friends '00 Mustang GT ran 14.5s all day durring last summer, this past winter he was running 14.1s all day, no difference except the wheather. Now hes has mods and runs 13s all day.
Case in point- My friends '00 Mustang GT ran 14.5s all day durring last summer, this past winter he was running 14.1s all day, no difference except the wheather. Now hes has mods and runs 13s all day.
04-07-07, 09:08 PM
#39
Just to show how Barometric Pressure affects times
Went to the track tonight with awful weather conditions for making power. I only went to see just how much low Barometric Pressure hurts times. All the cars were running slower than usual. Most of the EVO IX MR's were running mid to upper 13's, the SRT-8 300C that I saw rip off a high 12 a few times was stuck in the low 13's. Needless to say I won't be going to the track with a Barometric Pressure below a 30 ever again.
Temp: 48 degrees
Humidity: 52%
Barometric Pressure: 29.80
Winds fairly calm at 5-10mph from the NNE. Track faces NE
My two best runs out of 4
Run 1 vs a Modified WS6 that ripped off a 1.583 60' and a 11.87@113.09mph
R/T: .079
60': 2.061
330: 5.687
1/8: 8.655
MPH: 83.14
1000: 11.223
1/4: 13.398
MPH: 103.28
Run 2 vs a Modified Stealth Turbo with a 2.159 60' and a 13.597@103.57
R/T: .355
60': 2.065
330: 5.678
1/8: 8.644
MPH: 83.25
1000: 11.213
1/4: 13.388
MPH: 103.43
Temp: 48 degrees
Humidity: 52%
Barometric Pressure: 29.80
Winds fairly calm at 5-10mph from the NNE. Track faces NE
My two best runs out of 4
Run 1 vs a Modified WS6 that ripped off a 1.583 60' and a 11.87@113.09mph
R/T: .079
60': 2.061
330: 5.687
1/8: 8.655
MPH: 83.14
1000: 11.223
1/4: 13.398
MPH: 103.28
Run 2 vs a Modified Stealth Turbo with a 2.159 60' and a 13.597@103.57
R/T: .355
60': 2.065
330: 5.678
1/8: 8.644
MPH: 83.25
1000: 11.213
1/4: 13.388
MPH: 103.43
Darn you!
04-07-07, 09:51 PM
#42
Tech Info Resource
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Here are all 6 of my runs
13.094 @ 105.43
13.161 @ 105.27
13.187 @ 104.37
13.212 @ 104.52
14.139 @ 104.37
14.520 @ 103.96
Obviously, if you spin like your on ice, then let off the gas until it grips, then floor it again, your times are going to be MUCH worse than the trap speeds. Thats because the clock's running while the car is almost sitting still. You might as well just drive forward 1" to trigger the timer, wait a second, then hit the gas. However, if you throw out the runs with wheel spin, it seems obvious to me that times are more consistent than traps regarding power (on our cars anyway).
Surely you would agree that if you had 2 cars that were identical in every way except that one had a regular automatic, and the other had a CVT with an ECU that would maintain a gear ratio that would keep the engine at peak torque throughout the whole 1/4 mile ... the CVT would have a MUCH higher trap speed and certainly a quicker time.
13.094 @ 105.43
13.161 @ 105.27
13.187 @ 104.37
13.212 @ 104.52
14.139 @ 104.37
14.520 @ 103.96
Obviously, if you spin like your on ice, then let off the gas until it grips, then floor it again, your times are going to be MUCH worse than the trap speeds. Thats because the clock's running while the car is almost sitting still. You might as well just drive forward 1" to trigger the timer, wait a second, then hit the gas. However, if you throw out the runs with wheel spin, it seems obvious to me that times are more consistent than traps regarding power (on our cars anyway).
Surely you would agree that if you had 2 cars that were identical in every way except that one had a regular automatic, and the other had a CVT with an ECU that would maintain a gear ratio that would keep the engine at peak torque throughout the whole 1/4 mile ... the CVT would have a MUCH higher trap speed and certainly a quicker time.
Wait - next you're going to tell me you shift at hp peak... Please don't go there...
04-07-07, 10:24 PM
#43
shaolin:
tire condition is great. 4500 miles on tires.
GNN60GT500:
See above. btw, you ever going to post clips of your exhaust? You were one of the main factors that drove me towards the magnaflows.
tt061880:
Yea my 60's keep getting better and better. Like my stock tires are rocking. most my 60' this night were 2.0xx I am frustrated like you. We'll keep at it.
Rasengan:
cpu has had 2k miles to learn the mods. I always drive in automatic with traction control off.. our computers don't learn that way, but good thinking.
Gernby:
I was 1/4 on the money. That's what i always race with. ACtualy that day at ennis with you, i was in between 1/2 and 1/4. Those were my best 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile times ever.
I also have the stock air filter. I think it was you that said you had the same performance with the k$n and the stock.
STIG:
hahah I have been eating like chit lately. I have went from 148lbs to 155lbs in 2weeks.
still a light weight.
newr:
hahah never was on top. gernby is. but he cheats..!!! hahah not really.
Koz:
yea that is what i am *****ing about. bp was good, temp was good, track was good. ****ing trap speeds sucked!!!
Gernby:
air filter is good. I might cut out my carbon element. I need to talk to you again about that actualy.
Jeremy:
No reason to really reset our ecu. it's constantly learning and adjusting. dunno i could be wrong about that, but from what i know about our computers, is that our cpu's are constantly learning.
Cornellian:
it's good. I am thinking about cutting out the carbone element.
Thanks for all the responses. I didn't think this many people woudl respond to my *****ing..
Good side note happened today.
I was off today so instead of driving my daily driver (01 corolla) i was driving the IS. WEll, i got in two races today:
1. acura tls new with paper tags. race started off the line. I beat him so bad it was pretty lame
2. e46 m3 getting on to the hwy off a access road. This was the good race, because bmw's are supposed to be good here. anyways. it started around 60mph, he guns it then i gun it, took me till 80 to catch up , then we were steady, around 90 i started to pull him. passed around him on the left side. He was cool and drove back up and gave me the thumbs up. Typically people flip me off or do some ricer drive by chit.
tire condition is great. 4500 miles on tires.
GNN60GT500:
See above. btw, you ever going to post clips of your exhaust? You were one of the main factors that drove me towards the magnaflows.
tt061880:
Yea my 60's keep getting better and better. Like my stock tires are rocking. most my 60' this night were 2.0xx I am frustrated like you. We'll keep at it.
Rasengan:
cpu has had 2k miles to learn the mods. I always drive in automatic with traction control off.. our computers don't learn that way, but good thinking.
Gernby:
I was 1/4 on the money. That's what i always race with. ACtualy that day at ennis with you, i was in between 1/2 and 1/4. Those were my best 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile times ever.
I also have the stock air filter. I think it was you that said you had the same performance with the k$n and the stock.
STIG:
hahah I have been eating like chit lately. I have went from 148lbs to 155lbs in 2weeks.
still a light weight.newr:
hahah never was on top. gernby is. but he cheats..!!! hahah not really.
Koz:
yea that is what i am *****ing about. bp was good, temp was good, track was good. ****ing trap speeds sucked!!!
Gernby:
air filter is good. I might cut out my carbon element. I need to talk to you again about that actualy.
Jeremy:
No reason to really reset our ecu. it's constantly learning and adjusting. dunno i could be wrong about that, but from what i know about our computers, is that our cpu's are constantly learning.
Cornellian:
it's good. I am thinking about cutting out the carbone element.
Thanks for all the responses. I didn't think this many people woudl respond to my *****ing..
Good side note happened today.
I was off today so instead of driving my daily driver (01 corolla) i was driving the IS. WEll, i got in two races today:
1. acura tls new with paper tags. race started off the line. I beat him so bad it was pretty lame
2. e46 m3 getting on to the hwy off a access road. This was the good race, because bmw's are supposed to be good here. anyways. it started around 60mph, he guns it then i gun it, took me till 80 to catch up , then we were steady, around 90 i started to pull him. passed around him on the left side. He was cool and drove back up and gave me the thumbs up. Typically people flip me off or do some ricer drive by chit.
04-07-07, 11:21 PM
#44
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I don't see how it would be possible for gearing to NOT have direct impact on trap speeds since it changes the amount of time and distance spent in the "power band" (area under the thrust curve). If you increased the final drive ratio enough that you crossed the 1/4 mile mark right before the tranny would have to shift to 5th gear, the area under the torque curve would be much higher than if you reduced the gear ratio enough to make it a 3rd gear 1/4 mile.
04-08-07, 12:03 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
Good try, but no, Sir. The rears started to break loose at about 3-4K miles on the odo. I then switched to new wheels and tires (Michelin PS2's) during my 5K mile service with the same results. The Michelins are even stickier than the stock Dunlops.