Technique

Well, I guess in theory then, if all of the nannies could be disabled, it might be a capable chassis... But, like you said, the suspension would have to be upgraded, and a little weight removed from certain spots... But by that point, you have a car with a totally different ride, and well, why did you buy an IS350 in the first place and not a 335 or M3?

If I wanted a jarring ride all the time, I'd have gotten another M3... But I didn't, I wanted a smooth Lexus with good power and decent handling... I will take "decent" handling, over "great" handling for my daily drivers, hands down, no question... My buddy who drives a 911 to work every day, well, it's the biggest waste of a sports car there ever was... He does about 20 miles of stop and go highway driving... I'd rather be in an S-class for that...

There's no such thing as a vehicle that is perfect... That's why they make multi-car garages

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

Well with the right coilovers and set up, the ride won't become much (if at all) harsher.

Besides, there are other compromises to consider with cars than performance and comfort. There is aesthetic appeal, reliability, intuitive driver amenities (touch screen nav), price, options, etc...

Of all of those, performance is probably the easiest (and most fun) to improve on if your car doesn't come with a lot of it stock... And the IS is no slouch stock, anyways.

Technique

Very true... BMW and Mercedes electronics are garbage... The Nav (once hacked) in the IS350 is awesome... Totally blows away the germans, no contest...

But, do you think you could ever get the IS350 to handle as well as an M3? Because, in all honesty, the reason I keep bringing up the M3 is because it is sort of my minimum "handling" requirements for a twisty road like the OP was talking about... The M3 is not a sports car, but it's about as close as a luxury brand like BMW can get...

Preferably, I'll be in an actual sports car, like a Porsche, Lotus, or Ferrari though... (Or a Lambo if I have some rich friends around )

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

This repeats what I've stated.

"if the driver is entering a situation at a speed that is too fast for the tires to maintain traction upon slowing (while taking evasive maneuvers), they see an understeer situation. That is a fault of the driver, not the brake boost or car."

The point is, the IS has both brake assist and ABS. In a panic situation, the car will not provide more brake pressure than the ABS system will account for. Lexus as usual engineered the vehicle with safety in mind, and the driver knowing this, should take that into consideration with their driving habits. Enter a turn too fast while attempting to suddenly brake, and the car itself will behave as programmed. For some, its too intrusive or simply not sporty enough...but its no design flaw, just personal preference.

Good drivers know (and pro ones will tell you), that performance driving is risky-- at, or close to the limit earns the most reward. Quick reacting or even pro-active conservative drive systems provide the most safety. The question is which takes precedence, and what type of car strikes the greatest balance between the two. This of course is determined by design philosophy and personal opinion.

IMO, I'm not surpised at all by the IS350s performance. Great car, but most definately not built with performance potential in mind.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

^^^ So you're saying that you kunderstand the risks involved with the brake assist, but you just think that the benefits it provides outweigh them? I still don't agree that it's the fault of the driver. What I described is really the proper way to handle maneuvering away from an obstacle at a high speed. There is always some risk involved in taking any control out of the driver's hands in a situation like that... but I agree that with most drivers (including me a lot of the times, heh), these systems make the road safer for everyone.

Technique, I don't know how easy it would be to make an IS handle as well as an E46 M3 (and I don't know enough about the E92 to even try to guess), but I don't think that's a fair comparison since that car is also $15K more (new... which I guess is no longer available).

Technique

Agreed, it's not a fair comparison... Sorry about that... I don't really factor in cost... When I am buying a car, $15k is not a deciding factor... I'll buy whatever car fits my needs, so I tend to lump cars together that are not in the same "price bracket"...

That being said, it goes to show how much I like the Lexus when the other cars I was considering were the BMW 335i and the AMG E63... The Lexus was the cheapest and I went with the IS350... Price was NOT a factor in any way... I went purely with what I wanted... The IS350 was almost half the price of the AMG E-Class, but the navigation in the E-Class was garbage... Heck, if the E-Class had a better nav, I would be in an AMG E63 right now...

Well, let me add one last tidbit, had I not found that a hack existed for the IS350 nav, I would not be in the IS350... and probably would have settled for the crappy Mercedes Nav in the E63...

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

If you don't need $15K, feel free to send it this way. Just pretend you bought a more luxurious, worse performing M3.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

I won't say it has much to do with what I think, its more rooted in what has been proven. Car makes build these systems into their cars for a reason (safety). IMO though, most people do not know how to brake correctly during panic situations; braking too little is arguably as bad as braking too much. Brake boost and ABS together minimize both, better than most drivers could make claim to. Unfortunately for the smaller percentage of drivers who do know how to handle their cars in the upper 9/10ths of the limit, they must suffer. In this case, or for those who want a bit more control, I say competition is good...and its why I own another car for my performance driving interest.

Only the driver could've caused the car to enter high speeds...and pressing then releasing the brakes in a panic situation can upset the balance of the vehicle, especially if you throw in trying to turn. Most drivers cannot account for this, plus a host of other conditions in the moment. Chance accidents happen, but if you're driving with specific performance interest in mind off the track, in a car not designed for the performance you're trying to push, it has to be understood that you also assume the risk involved. This is why I believe its more the drivers doing than anything else (of course we can agree to disagree here).

Keep in mind, that we're just talking in general. Of course exceptions will occcur, but I agree with what you say here to sum it up:

"with most drivers (including me a lot of the times, heh), these systems make the road safer for everyone."

^^ I think Toyota would agree.

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

that is some of the funniest **** i have read on this forum to date. You mean to tell me that the nav from the 40k is350 is what won you over an e63 90k car??? Seriously. I might be able to believe your budget was flexible 10-15k from 40k. but dude 40k-90k. There is nobody on this forum or anywhere else that would take a is350 over an e63 if they could really afford one. Regardless of the nav. Send me your w2 foo, somebody telling aesop's fables in this bizzy.

you are not even in the same ball park comparing those cars. Like why would you even ponder getting the 335i if you were also thinking e63? Shouldn't you be shopping a new m5 instead of the 335?? Please tell me you were joking about all this and I am just too dumb to see the humor thru the text.

socalJD

^^^ I don't think he's joking - he's serious. He leases his rides, so he can get into some high end cars by just leasing and walking away 3 years later w/out the headaches or excess baggage . . . you obviously have not been following his maintenance threads

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

^^^^^ quoted straight from his maint thread that I "obviously have read" better then you.

"December 8, 2006 - Got a call from the dealer today... My car is still not allocated... The soonest I will have it is late Jan/Early Feb... This is bad news so I decided to cancel the order... Luckily, I found the exact same car at a different dealership... Only difference was it also had headlamp washers and the accessory package, and the black interior... So I bought it today... So, here's the updated specs on what I got: Model: 2007 IS350 (9510)"


it wouldn't matter if he leased (which his thread says he 'bought'). The price difference between a 350 and a e63 lease would be more then double.

Gtidan

Not to rain on your parade but where does it say in the Lexus brochure that it was designed for the type of driving you describe?

The brakes were designed to get ahead of the driver to keep him/her from slamming into the person/thing in front of them (My old C230 Benz did exactly the same thing) Yes, it can be annoying but it could save my butt too.

The paddle shifters are really just advertising copy. We all know they don't do anything. They react way to slow to make any use of them.

The car under steers cause it was designed to do so. Lexus in NOT a sports car manufacturer but rather just another company trying pick up those of us who really don't care but want to look the part.

The ESP was designed to keep people from losing control of their car and plowing into someone like my wife and I on CA 1. Glad to know it worked.

You want a track car you purchased the wrong one.....simple as that. I've driven that road many times (not in my IS) and any car the size of a Lexus is going to perform badly on those switchbacks. On the long sweepers I would think the Lexus would be nice.

I once kept a very upset Porsche driver at bay for many, many miles in my 87 Mazda RX7 on CA 1. He definitely had me in grunt but not enough road to pull it off. I finally let him by. Still brings a grin to my face remembering how he looked at me. Like a Mazda kept me at bay how could that happen?

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

Who are you talking to? It is pretty hard to figure out what I need to be looking for in the brochure since you seem to just be spewing a bunch of "stuff" in response to nobody ... or everybody?

Koz

There is no way a person can manually do the things the nannies and VDIM can do in an emergency situation. One example is the stability control. There is no way anyone can trigger one wheel's brakes to keep the vehicle from coming around. It has been proven that electronics can control the car better then any human. Look at what is going on in racing today, traction control on F1 cars, it is like cheating. Electronics that shut the ignition off for milliseconds while the trans shift.

Koz

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You guys are all arguing about driving at the limit. I'm not. I'm talking about driving at no more than 8/10ths. I know very well to brake before the turn and balance the car on entry with the throttle, but when I'm waiting for the gearbox to quit thinking about acting and DO something, it's pretty damned difficult.

I spent enough time road racing motorcycles to have a very keen feel for traction. I have consistently stopped a 500lb machine with me (200lbs) riding it in 13 feet from 25 mph. I proved it repeatedly in MSF Instructor Training (yes, I was a certified MSF instructor too) so I'm really not entertaining comments about not being smooth or not knowing how to use brakes. I can consistently out-brake ABS in the dry, and it's not an academic thing, I've done it with measured distances.

Sure, the systems **** off people like me who understand traction and know how to effectively use brakes. Maybe John Q Public is better off with these systems in place. But if it were my goal to be safe all the time, I'd take public transportation and leave the driving to "professionals" because obviously I can't be trusted to control my vehicle.

Please. You guys are killing me with all these excuses. The IS350 blows chunks on a windy road. It is not the "intelligent sport" machine the marketers would have us believe it is. It's too heavy, too numb, and too restricted to be any fun at all.

Technique - you are right, I was hopeful. I am not anymore. I am disappointed and glad it is not my only ride. FWIW, I would not call an M3 any better. Still too heavy by any measure. And I know there is nothing anyone can do with a suspension that will overcome the IS's portly behaviour.